So badly want to go where will we fit in?

amother

Orange ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 2:33 am

Rav Yitzchak Berkovitz strongly advises against this. When families ask if they should make aliyah he tells them they have a responsibility not to harm their kids, and he will not allow them to make Aliyah if their oldest is over 8 years old- he will make them wait until their youngest child is at least 16 or 17.

He has decades of experience guiding Americans who make Aliyah so those pushing Aliyah for everyone may want to reach out to him to find out what his concerns are.

amother

Puce

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 2:49 am

amother OP wrote:

I only Want yerushalayim because I want to be close to the kotel. My family who lives in bet shemesh goes to the kotel once a year maybe.

I live in rbs it takes me 40 minutes to drive to mamailla . My friends that live in Jerusalem can take equally as long. That’s not a reason that to live here. It’s a few choose to go. I don’t feel super connected to going there, but I just had family in town why I went twice in a month. But it’s really not far at all. So that should not deter you. And yes, it is hard to find the right place but if your husband doesn’t want to go, I’m in the same page it’s not so Simple, but if there’s a lot of people that can be very helpful

amother

Red ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 3:04 am

amother OP wrote:

DH has no desire to leave and move to E”Y.
I have a burning desire.
We have a new business we just started and lots of debt from living life, but I’m not letting the financials worry me.

My concern is more where will we go and where will my kids fit in. We definitely need very Anglo, but I don’t want Ramat Bet Shemesh, I just think it’s too big.
Also ideally I’d love to be in yerushalayim although I know what is highly improbable financially and otherwise.
My kids are used to a house (not huge but just a normal size house), so we need a 4 bedroom ideally. Is this even feasible?

Also, we are middle of the road, if we have to say, lean more to the right, but we watch kosher movies, DH wears colored shirts (although he may be willing to change that), I don’t demand knee socks before BAS mitzvah. DH has chassidish roots so we’d need a shteibel too, but we aren’t chassidish, aren’t looking for any of the restrictions or being bound to a rebbe. Just a nice heimishe chassidishe davening

Any recommendations as to where we’d fit in?

I am Israeli.

Living in Yerushalayim is beautiful but not practical for you at this stage.
RBS is super out of town-y.
There are many "mini-communities" within the larger area.
There's a huge range of religious observance and tons of school options.
Yerushalayim is very close.
I know people who go weekly or even more often.
I could suggest cities farther away but they're bigger than RBS and further from Yerushalayim.
Sounds like your DH would fit into the Aish Kodesh shul.
You could get a duplex apartment, it will feel like a house.
Are your kids on board at all?
I know families that made aliyah with pre teens and teens but the kids were super on board and very committed to living in Israel.
I personally can't imagine making such a big life change without DH being on board but if you can present him with some facts, then maybe he can be persuaded.

https://www.rbssunshine.com/
http://rbsviews.com/
Weekly English magazines with real estate ads

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 6:10 am

amother Red wrote:

Thanks. I’m not sure aish kodesh is his type though. I don’t know much about it, but if it’s like the aish kodesh here that’s very spiritual, Breslov type (not breslov but Breslov type), carlebach type. DH is looking for something different.
Thanks for the other info, very helpful

amother

↑ Dustypink

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 6:24 am

amother OP wrote:

Aish kodesh in rbs is more of a heimish crowd, I would not consider it Breslov-y. But at your stage of life, you definitely need to check out the potential communities and shuls before deciding where to move (and for your husband to be on board).

ora_43 ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 6:28 am

I don't recommend Jerusalem for you. Beyond being expensive the school situation there is trickier. My friends there found it really hard getting into girls' high schools and their oldest ended up going to school in a different city (this probably varies by community, though).

As for 'anglo' it's good to have a strong anglo community if you want a softer landing, but OTOH, too heavily anglo and your kids might struggle to integrate.

RBS and Efrat both sound like OK options for you.

But mostly you need more information. What jobs would you both be looking for here. What kind of budget would you have. How important is having a detached house (a rarity here) vs other aspects of your dream community. You say you're middle of the road, but how would that translate, what kind of school are you looking for here? Eg do you see your sons serving in the army, or not, or you want their school to be open to either choice? Do you see your kids going to university, to a religious-only college, or no higher ed? Do you want the school to have rules about what your kids can and can't wear outside of school? Or what phone they can have?

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 6:41 am

amother Red wrote:

What do you mean by Jlm not being practical at this stage? Can you please elaborate?

amother

↑ Red ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:01 am

amother Blue wrote:

What do you mean by Jlm not being practical at this stage? Can you please elaborate?

OP wants a house, or at least a duplex apartment but she doesn't have an unlimited budget.
She doesn't want city life, she said she wants "OOT feel"
She needs a middle of the road Anglo community.
She needs a variety of schools that aren't impossible to get into.
She wants to be near the Kotel, the more affordable areas of Jerusalem can be almost as far as RBS.
There may be suitable schools for all of her children in Jerusalem but they likely will be all over the city. In RBS things are much closer to each other and much more accessible with a car. It's super suburban.

Reality ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:03 am

amother Orange wrote:

I have a lot of respect for Rav Berkovitz but his advice regarding aliyah is for his very specific demographic. Many of the families making aliyah to RBS and Efrat are very, very different from his crowd in Sanhedria Murchevet and the surrounding areas.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:05 am

amother Red wrote:

Very helpful thanks

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:06 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

Ya we would for sure need to check it out. But we really don’t have the funds for airplane tickets, and have no one to watch our kids so we’d have to bring the who family. Id love to, it’s my dream to bring my kids for a month in the summer and learn Israeli culture a tad bit. But we don’t have that available right now

↑ ora_43 ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:10 am

In general remember that to a large extent you're going to need to fit yourself to the place.

Even if you find a community with a lot of English speakers who share your exact hashkafa, it's a completely different country. Different food, different weather, different culture, different political system, different laws, different language. You will need to make a lot of changes. Maybe some will also be related to hashkafa (giving up kosher movies and colored shirts to fit in a hareidi community, or going the other direction and adapting to religious Zionism). But even if not there will be a process of culture shock and integration.

You probably know all this. Just my disclaimer that I mean "good options" in the sense of being the most comfortable from among a bunch of options that are all going to require a big effort to adapt.

↑ Reality ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:12 am

amother Red wrote:

What OP wants doesn't exist. She needs to pick and choose what is her priority. My opinion is if you are making aliyah with older kids, your kids always come first over every other consideration. Very nice you want to live in walking distance to the kotel. No, it is more important for your kids to have as easy an adjustment as possible.

I don't blame OP. She is listing all her dream considerations, and a girl can definitely dream! If she is serious about making aliyah, she will realize very fast what is and isn't realistic.

↑ ora_43

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:15 am

amother OP wrote:

But then why on all the Aliyah threads do people yell at me that I am not coming because I’m lazy and they’re sick of my excuses.

Same reason that a woman can hear from one relative "another baby already? you should take a nice long break after this one," and from another, "aren't you going to give your youngest a little brother or sister? you're not getting any younger."

Same reason a woman's clothes can be deemed prudish by one person and immodest by another.

There's always going to be someone to one side of you and someone to the other. If you have like ten solid reasons why aliyah isn't an option, there will still be someone who thinks it's all excuses; if you have ten solid reasons why aliyah is the best option for you, there will still be someone warning that it will ruin your kids' chinuch.

Just One ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:32 am

I see nothing here that tells me that your family is a good candidate for aliyah right now. You're in debt, just started a new business, cannot afford to do a pilot trip. How will you afford starting a whole new life and the financial stress that comes with it?
That along with your kids ages makes it seem like a good idea to hold off for now. In five- ten years you will hopefully be better positioned to consider aliyah again but right now it doesn't seem realistic.

amother

↑ Red ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:46 am

Reality wrote:

I was explaining to someone who asked why Jerusalem isn't practical for OP.

kermit ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:50 am

There's a new community being built for Americans in Israel called Givat Hashalva that is right outside yerushalayim. Most buyers there are already living in Israel a few years, like started marriage there.

Husband and I have been eyeing it bc it's supposed to be a nice, frum, American community and the apartments are very big with lots of outdoor space.

Husband also is less on board moving to E"Y than I am, but we've been talking about it nonstop and his latest is if Kamala wins he's making aliyah. I'm not holding my breath but I am dreaming lol. it's good to keep the dream alive, maybe one day it will happen that way.

↑ Reality ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 7:52 am

amother OP wrote:

So funny because whenever there are threads here about why don’t Jews leave America etc. everyone gets all upset that our excuses are so stupid and lame. And now you are giving me an “excuse” (not that I am looking for an excuse, I wish I can go, but I know circumstances are not in my favor)

You have to differentiate between generalities and specific cases.

Those threads become a balagan really quickly because specific posters take offense when other posters take their post about the klal in general for their very, very specific set of life circumstances.

It's like getting all up and arms about people saying ashkenazim don't eat fleishigs during the nine days. Well maybe I'm a person who has severe food restrictions and I am allowed to eat fleishigs? Should I be mad if a different poster flat out said you can't?

Since there is very little personal attachment to eating chicken in the nine days, it is very obvious that anyone getting all worked up about it is overreacting and taking things personally when nobody meant it that way. Making aliyah carries a lot more emotional baggage.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Aug 06 2024, 8:04 am

Just One wrote:

I can’t believe this is allowed to pass on imamother. If this was a thread about why don’t all Jews go I’d be eaten up alive for my “excuses”. Yet only because I expressed some interest in going am I allowed to be told it’s ok not to go