Would you wake them?

amother

↑ Peru

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 8:44 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

I have family members that intentionally sleeps as late as possible Shabbos morning when they stay by us, even though they have little kids that really need assistance and supervision. To try to keep the peace, I make sure I get up early so that I can help with the kids. Still, as soon as things get to be too much to handle, I send an older child to let the parents know the kids need assistance. If they still don't get up, I send the child that needs supervision into the parents room.

Why don’t you send the kids in instantly? Not sure why you make sure to get up early, you are enabling entitled behavior. You are no less entitled to sleep in than she is.

amother

Birch

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 9:34 am

This is such a huge pet peeve of mine.

When we go to my parents or in-laws, one of us makes sure to get up and go out of the room to supervise the kids as soon as they make noise. I wake up often to a nursing baby or to use the bathroom plus I'm in general a light sleeper so I take note of when I hear other kids awake. I either stay out or wake DH to go out since it's not my mother or my MIL's repsonsibility to watch my kids.

OTOH, when I host guests, whether it's my siblings or DH's siblings, both parents sleep late and leave their kids unattended to. Since it's our house, DH and I aren't usually as on top of the kids and sometimes continue sleeping when they're already awake. It's our house, they know where and how to play. But it baffles me how my guests just continue sleeping, sometimes 3-4 hours after their kids woke up!!! Like what do you think is happening?

And when we're at my in-laws or parents home together with another family, it's either DH or I who is awake and watching not only our own kid but the other person's kid, by default. They don't ask us to watch them. They just don't watch them and then the only adult around ends up with that burden, whether it's a 15 month old or a 4 year old.

It's so unacceptable to me and yet time and again I am utterly baffled by other people's cluelessness and sometimes serious neglect of their children.

I hope my DDs and future DILs will do better.

amother

DarkOrange

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 11:46 am

When we go to my in-laws, my kids go downstairs and my mother in law would watch them. I felt terrible, and told her to wake me. She told me it's her pleasure to spend time with her grandchildren and to let me sleep in.

But BH my kids were not wild or crazy...but to have crazy kids in the house that are not related....that's a totally different story. And she offered.

We once hosted a family for a simcha in town. We have 2 bedrooms we would lend, but on different floors. I told the baal simcha and they put a family with 5 kids by me. The parents slept with the youngest and one other boy. The put the oldest girl (11) in charge of the 5 year old. Everyone went to sleep and left the 5 year old to fend for herself. She was wondering my house 11:00 PM bored. When she went downstairs her mother yelled at her to go to bed. During the day she went into my daughter's room and dumped her beads (100s of them) all over the floor of the hallway. I saw there was no control over the kids. The next time that family had a simcha I told them I wasn't available to host.

Sometimes you need to put your foot down and not host if it will be chaos at your expense.

Puppies

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:18 pm

amother Linen wrote:

As a guest, there are a lot of assumptions here.

Just because I sleep in doesn't mean I planned or intended to sleep in. It doesn't mean I expected or thought you'd be watching my children.

Usually in my home I am woken up by my children or by light pouring in through my window or by my alarm clock.

As a guest in someone's house, especially on Shabbos and Yom Tov, that may not happen. My kids might wake up without letting me know and go play. The curtains in the room may be thicker or the windows smaller and I might not wake up from the light. I don't set alarm clocks for Shabbos.

I do usually sleep later in my home on Shabbos by default, since my kids usually sleep later and I don't have to wake up early to get them to school. I may sleep more deeply after a late meal or because of a more comfortable bed than I have at home.

I don't know how to tell time in my sleep. I don't have a Mommy radar that tells me that my kids woke up early from excitement or the unfamiliar beds or the unfamiliar sounds.

Please don't assume that if my kids came out to play and I'm still fast asleep that I wanted or expected you to babysit. If my kids are up and I'm not up, please do wake me. I don't want you to resent my presence or my kids.

You are unfairly putting the onus on your host, instead of taking responsibility yourself. Don't close the shades so tightly, set up an alarm, tell your kids to come to your room etc. Figure out how to not overburden your host, who is already feeding and hosting you. Don't make her now also be your alarm clock and babysitter.

amother

NeonPurple ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 3:04 pm

OP, thank you so much for taking care of the children and I’m so so sorry about the huge mess you had to clean and the wreckage your house went through! The parents should have told you this instead of giggling but I’ll say it bc you need to know that’s a huge deal and you are so appreciated in my books

amother

Acacia

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 3:21 pm

amother NeonPurple wrote:

Ooh I got nervous you were the person op is talking about when I started reading your post. That would have been awkward.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Sat, Jun 15 2024, 3:44 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Why do you even host these entitled guests?

amother

Wandflower

Sat, Jun 15 2024, 4:06 pm

amother Linen wrote:

I don't have a Mommy radar

Please don't assume that if my kids came out to play and I'm still fast asleep that I wanted or expected you to babysit. If my kids are up and I'm not up, please do wake me. I don't want you to resent my presence or my kids.

How come I have the feeling you don't even want be be in Mommy radar mode?

amother

↑ Linen

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 5:36 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

How come I have the feeling you don't even want be be in Mommy radar mode?

Maybe because you want to assume the worst of people?

(I do try to learn from my mistakes. That doesn't mean I will have a way to know in advance if my kid will wake up an hour before I set my alarm, which I set based on their usual wake up time. Don't worry, I'm not your guest and probably never will be.)

↑ ora_43

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 7:47 am

Puppies wrote:

As a host I would not feel at all burdened at going to knock on someone's door and say 'hey, your kid is up.'

People are only human. Some people wake up immediately when their alarm goes off, some take an hour to get moving. Some wake up at every little noise and some can sleep through a rocket siren.

Unless there's a reason to assume someone's being lazy or malicious, why assume it? Doubly so if it's someone like the amother you're responding to who literally said that she wants to wake up and would if she could.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 7:56 am

amother OP wrote:

I did send an older sibling to tell their parents that x was up and making messes but the parents didn't get up.
I suspected the mother is pregnant so I felt bad to go again after the child did.
I was just wondering what you would do.
When the parents did surface I did tell them what was going on for the past hour+. They sort of giggled and said yup sounds like him and told me some of their most recent stories with him.
The next morning I made my husband wake up early and figure it out because it's his best friend.
It was not an easy Yom tov to say the least.

Wow. That’s just chutzpah
What a nerve to be ok with that in someone else’s house.
Not enuf you hosted them for Yom Tov ???

You have to clean up after their toddler?

amother

Aconite ↓

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 9:14 am

When I go somewhere for Shabbos I don't set an alarm because typically my kids' very first action upon waking is to come find me and ask for breakfast. If for whatever reason instead of coming to me they instead just played with the hosts' kids, I would hope the host would wake me up and let me know my kids are up, instead of being resentful that I didn't magically wake up on my own or set an alarm- most people I know don't travel with alarm clocks and a surprising amount of people don't have alarm clocks in their guest room.

I'm in a permanently exhausted state, unless I'm woken up I'm not gonna burst awake on my own. I think the difference between me and OP's guests is that if I came out to hear that my toddler created such havoc, I'd be mortified, apologizing profusely, asking what I can do to fix the damage, and promising the host that I'll watch the kids while she takes a nap. But I'd also be like, why in the world didn't you just wake me up, of course I didn't intend for you to watch all my kids!

When I have guests, 98% of the time one of them gets up with their kids. Once in a while it's the husband who did and he then went off to shul leaving the wife sleeping. As long as I'm up with my kids anyway, I don't mind to let the wife sleep while I supervise their kids in the playroom too. If it ever got unruly though, I would have no problem tapping on their door to wake them up! And I would hope my hosts would do the same for me- wake me up rather then get all resentful and stew over it.

DrMom

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 9:35 am

amother OP wrote:

Curious what other people would do.

Our guests for Yom tov have a few rambunctious children KaH but their youngest is extremely mischievous and impulsive. He is one of those kids that need to be watched every second, the problem is his parents were not doing that.
I wanted to sleep in the morning but the kids were yelling so I went to see what was happening and it was mess everywhere. I mean my spices spilled out all over the floor, a bottle of orange spilled everywhere, marker written on walls and the Fridge, you get the picture. The older kids were annoyed because the toddler was wrecking havoc and I realized I needed to be down there to supervise. That's how I spent my Yom tov morning.

I wasn't sure if I should wake the parents up or not. What would you have done?

Yes, you should have woken the parents up.

"Hi, good morning. Apparently, Little Moishe has been up for a while and has been very busy in my kitchen. I think you need to take a look."

Re: the marker on the wall and fridge: Your guests should pay for the damage. If they don't volunteer right away, find a diplomatic but firm way to indicate that they are responsible for damages and you'll be sending them the bill.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 9:42 am

DrMom wrote:

Totally agree with you.
Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if the same kind of entitled guests would claim they don't have to pay for damage (as per Halacha parents are not obliged to pay for kids' damages)

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 9:49 am

amother Aconite wrote:

It's guests' responsibility to bring their own Shabbos alarm clocks. Just as you bring your own tooth brush.

amother

↑ OP

Sun, Jun 16 2024, 9:56 am

I host a lot and I've never had someone not get up with their kids. The guestroom is on the main floor, I cannot imagine that both parents didn't hear the noise when I was called from upstairs by the children's yelling.
The reason why I hesitated to wake them up was it seemed quite obvious that they were ignoring the noise and I thought what if they had a real reason.
To those who say that it's possible for you to sleep through your kids waking up, please tell your hosts in advance. Hey I sometimes sleep differently in other people's homes. Please wake me if my kids are up and I did not come out yet. Similar to what you would do if you had a simcha that you needed to be awake for.
I agree that the reaction to what happened was the real clincher. They obviously didn't seem to care at all.