Would you wake them?

amother

Snapdragon ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 1:22 am

When I stay away aa a guest there is no way I would expect anyone else to look after my kids. They know to play quietly in the bedroom until I wake or to wake me up.
I wonder if that kids has ADHD? It is so not normal for any kids to be so destructive esp in someone else's home. Even so the parents should be 100% on top of the child. It is not ok to let your host babysit unless they have volunteered for that. Just socially off.

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 1:25 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

How did you teach them that? Do they do it at home too?

ora_43 ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 1:41 am

If I wanted to go back to sleep, or just really didn't want to deal with the toddler to the point where I'd resent it, I'd wake them up.

If I didn't mind watching the toddler, I'd watch the toddler and let them sleep in.

I think there's room to be dan l'khaf zchut that they didn't sleep in intentionally. Even with a child going to wake them up. The kid might not have properly woken them up, they might have been half-asleep and not fully understood what was going on. Maybe at home their older kids watch the younger one and they just assumed that would happen (/was happening) at your house, too.

But yeah, in general, if you're at someone's home, you have to deal with your own kids.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 1:44 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

I wonder if that kids has ADHD? It is so not normal for any kids to be so destructive esp in someone else's home. E

It's a toddler. It's so, so normal for toddlers to be destructive. It's not even intentional, they genuinely don't understand that they're doing serious damage when they color on walls or furniture. The concept of 'guest behavior' is also completely lost on most kids under age 5 let alone age 3.

If the kid was 4 or 5 I'd say possible red flag, but for a 2-year-old, nah.

amother

↑ Snapdragon

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 1:48 am

amother Linen wrote:

How did you teach them that? Do they do it at home too?

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but yes, my kids know what is acceptable behavior and that the rules are different at home and in someone else's home. And they know how to read a clock for getting up time, and that if it is too early then to play quietly in their room until waking up time.
This is normal parenting in my book, my friends have the same rules.

We are not strict- kids often sleep in one of our beds at night if unwell or frightened/have a bad dream. And they are allowed free access into our bedroom at night, no asking permission needed. And wake up time is 6.30am, so not late.

But they for sure know how to respect others and that destructive actions are not ok and hurt others.

Do you not teach your children that?

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:01 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

My kids know that there are different rules in different homes, but have no compunctions about playing quietly and nicely in a different part of the house (one that they know they are allowed access to) without waking me up. They are not destructive at home and not destructive in other people's homes either.

My toddlers don't follow my rules at home and don't follow my rules in anyone else's home either. I might tell my kids to let me know if the toddler was awake and climbed out of the crib/bed and went to join them, but they would be likely not to remember.

I would hope that if a host was unhappy about anything I or my children were doing they would let me know promptly and not stew in resentment and assume things about me or my intentions.

amother

Obsidian

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 4:02 am

We have a close relative who likes to sleep until 11 or 12 Shabbos morning. Officially she assigns babysitting duty to some of her older children (current babysitter is about 12). Practically speaking, I watched her toddlers when they slept in our house for many years. I didn't love it, but I accepted that this is just how it is. Then, 3 years ago, I had a baby after a 7 year break. It became really difficult for me to watch her kids and my baby on my own after that. We tried telling her that we'd love to have her, but that an adult needs to supervise her little kids (she has 4 kids under 6 at the moment, 2 of whom are really wild). Nothing changed on her end. So we stopped hosting them so frequently. When we hosted them this past year for succos, my husband took over all cleaning. When the night meals ended, he shooed me off to sleep, while he stayed up to put the house back together. I think it really hit home for him then just how insanely messy his sister's kids were allowed to be without any supervision - food all over the ground floor, every toy bucket dumped, bookcases literally emptied, mud tracked in. I'm not blaming the kids. They're kids. Kids need an adult to supervise them or they run wild. It's going to be a long time before we host them again. I know my sister in law is very insulted by what she sees as us creating distance with her these past three years. And I truly feel bad for her, they have little other family and no parents or in laws to step in and help with the kids or give her the occasional break. I can understand why she comes to our house and just seems to collapse, to hibernate in her room. And when I didn't have a baby of my own, when it was just my older kids, it was ok. I knew inviting her meant lots of supervising and cleaning for me, and I accepted it as part of the package. I just don't have the strength to do that anymore.

amother

Burntblack

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 4:33 am

amother Peru wrote:

Don’t invite them again. They obviously expect you to give up sleep and babysit him.

Exactly. Do not invite them again. Maybe when they grow up and realize they need to watch their children. I would have been horrified and apologize 1000x if this was my child and I wasn't able to get up/even if I felt not well cause of a pregnancy. Stay home if you don't feel well, and Have your DH help you. If you were sisters or SIL"s and she asked the night before ''Can you watch Moish for an hour''. That's a different story.

imasinger

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 4:59 am

Communication and planning.

It's often a good idea for a host to have a conversation with a prospective guest with young children, explaining politely that it's a house rule that children be supervised by their parents at all times, unless other arrangements are agreed to in advance.

And then, before bedtime the first night, to ask how the guests expect things to go in the morning, and what if a child wakes early (or at night). The ensuing conversation should end with a clear plan.

Side note. I have found it worthwhile to own a monitor, even though my own "baby" is 17, and sweetly help guests set up the one end where young children are sleeping, and the other in their room.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:19 am

amother OP wrote:

I did send an older sibling to tell their parents that x was up and making messes but the parents didn't get up.
I suspected the mother is pregnant so I felt bad to go again after the child did.
I was just wondering what you would do.
When the parents did surface I did tell them what was going on for the past hour+. They sort of giggled and said yup sounds like him and told me some of their most recent stories with him.
The next morning I made my husband wake up early and figure it out because it's his best friend.
It was not an easy Yom tov to say the least.

This is the most disturbing part to me. It's a gauranteed way to reinforce negative behavior, just laugh at what they're doing.

amother

Dandelion ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:32 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

They didnt decide that, they are just being human and sleeping in the comfortable beds that OP provided.
They fully expect to be woken up to care for their children unless they told OP otherwise.
Pregnant or not, whatever, as was pointed out, these are their children and I am 100% sure they didnt mean to oversleep or to allow their child to destroy the house. They will make amends.

If they know they don't always wake up early and that their kid requires supervision, they should ask one of the older children or host to wake them as soon as the younger child is up. They knew exactly how this would play out.

amother

↑ Dandelion ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:37 am

I have family members that intentionally sleeps as late as possible Shabbos morning when they stay by us, even though they have little kids that really need assistance and supervision. To try to keep the peace, I make sure I get up early so that I can help with the kids. Still, as soon as things get to be too much to handle, I send an older child to let the parents know the kids need assistance. If they still don't get up, I send the child that needs supervision into the parents room.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:37 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

SIL doesn't have any older kids to do the babysitting? Why should it fall on you?

I get the feeling she and her DH aren't really doing their parenting the way they should.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:41 am

amother Dandelion wrote:

Kind of entitled behaviour.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 5:44 am

Before we went to bed I had told them, I gave some instructions for the morning. The cereal is here, feel free to take out the cheesecake from the fridge, coffee instructions and showed them the playroom. It was quite clear that I didn't intend to wake up to take care of anyone in the morning.
I sent the child to wake the parents because it felt more respectful of their privacy. What if the bedroom door was left open and the wife's tichel was off or something. I dunno, it just felt right. I did try to get the toddler to go to his parents but he literally just ran away.
I did find out later from one of the kids that the parents sleep in on shabbos morning and basically just deal with the mess when they wake up. My kids yelled for me because they knew I would not be ok with what was going on.
Btw I'm not judging anyone for having a toddler like this, I've had 2 like this myself. But with those toddlers I knew, either me or my husband had to be supervising.
This lack of supervision continued through the rest of the Yom tov so now I know.