Would you wake them?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:16 am

amother Hunter wrote:

What if they had a hard time falling asleep or kept waking up. Or if they have a baby who gets up every two hours.

If you want to do that chessed, then do it and yasher koach to you.

Personally, I am a light sleeper. When I have guests with children, as soon as I hear the patter of little feet, I am up, quickly dress and go out to direct their playing so it doesnt get to the situation that OP described. I enjoy children, so its truly my pleasure to do with them neigel vasser, direct them to the bathroom if need be, give them something to eat and read books to them or play something.
If it gets too much, I do wake up the parents. Honestly I would feel terrible if something bad happened....
If I wasnt up to it, for whatever reason, I made sure to tell the guests in advance...because OPs situation is waaay tooo common...people think they are on vacation when being hosted.

amother

Aster

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:29 am

amother Peru wrote:

Don’t invite them again. They obviously expect you to give up sleep and babysit him.

Op shouldn't invite them again.
Here's some room for dlkz. She's possibly pregnant. This kid is a handful (and possibly has issues - this is very extreme behavior). Finally they are able to sleep in a little.
Yes they should have woken up
No its not right what they did
OP should be upset
Just think about the brief respite you provided them. The tiny break.
They were probably laughing bc it's either that or cry

amother

↑ Peru ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:30 am

amother Aster wrote:

It’s still 100% wrong. How did they know that op didn’t desperately need the break and need to sleep in? How did they decide they can lean on her like that?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:35 am

amother Peru wrote:

It’s still 100% wrong. How did they know that op didn’t desperately need the break and sleep in? How did they decide they can lean on her like that?

They didnt decide that, they are just being human and sleeping in the comfortable beds that OP provided.
They fully expect to be woken up to care for their children unless they told OP otherwise.
Pregnant or not, whatever, as was pointed out, these are their children and I am 100% sure they didnt mean to oversleep or to allow their child to destroy the house. They will make amends.

amother

↑ Peru ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:36 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Huh how can you definitively say any of this? And they just laughed and didn’t care so seems you didn’t read it well.

amother

Honeysuckle

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:37 am

Wow I can’t imagine accepting an invite at someone’s house knowing my kids can do destruction like that.
That’s purely irresponsible.
I don’t care if she’s pregnant or not.
I’m pregnant. I still take care of my kids. And if I couldn’t I wouldn’t go anywhere.
I’m amazed you didn’t try waking them up again. I certainly would have.
That is so so not ok.

amother

Peony

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:46 am

OP, I understand your dilemma, but I think you were totally justified for waking them and it wasn't nice for them to just continue sleeping in. What a shame that their toddler was permitted to treat your home with disrespect. That's within the range of normal, but responsibility is on the parents. I've had my share of less than considerate guests and it usually means that they won't get a return invite. There was the Shabbos guest who decided that it was okay to show up Thursday night when I was pregnant and really not feeling well. She told me that she didn't mind that my cleaning help wasn't coming until the next day (when she would have made the bed for me.) She also went through my closets looking for additional blankets and traifed my kitchen while I was napping because she wanted more food and didn't ask which was milchig and which was fleishig (despite my serving a very ample lunch which she ate heartily.) There was the guest who put her toddler on my dining room table and the guest whose baby dropped food all over the high chair and floor and announced, "I'm not cleaning that up." But for all those, there have been lovely guests who made us all so happy to host them (and we've been hosted for simchas by wonderful hosts.) It's a little direct, but you could pre-empt with future guests by saying, "when your baby gets up, he's welcome to play with our kids' toys. I would just ask that you please watch him since we're no longer babyproofed here. I have some things to do in the morning to get lunch ready."

amother

↑ Hyssop ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I did send an older sibling to tell their parents that x was up and making messes but the parents didn't get up.
I suspected the mother is pregnant so I felt bad to go again after the child did.
I was just wondering what you would do.
When the parents did surface I did tell them what was going on for the past hour+. They sort of giggled and said yup sounds like him and told me some of their most recent stories with him.
The next morning I made my husband wake up early and figure it out because it's his best friend.
It was not an easy Yom tov to say the least.

Are the guests your kids & is said child your grandchild?
This would change things for. I'd supervise the grandchildren & allow their parents to sleep in.

amother

Linen ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 12:57 am

As a guest, there are a lot of assumptions here.

Just because I sleep in doesn't mean I planned or intended to sleep in. It doesn't mean I expected or thought you'd be watching my children.

Usually in my home I am woken up by my children or by light pouring in through my window or by my alarm clock.

As a guest in someone's house, especially on Shabbos and Yom Tov, that may not happen. My kids might wake up without letting me know and go play. The curtains in the room may be thicker or the windows smaller and I might not wake up from the light. I don't set alarm clocks for Shabbos.

I do usually sleep later in my home on Shabbos by default, since my kids usually sleep later and I don't have to wake up early to get them to school. I may sleep more deeply after a late meal or because of a more comfortable bed than I have at home.

I don't know how to tell time in my sleep. I don't have a Mommy radar that tells me that my kids woke up early from excitement or the unfamiliar beds or the unfamiliar sounds.

Please don't assume that if my kids came out to play and I'm still fast asleep that I wanted or expected you to babysit. If my kids are up and I'm not up, please do wake me. I don't want you to resent my presence or my kids.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:14 am

amother Peru wrote:

Huh how can you definitively say any of this? And they just laughed and didn’t care so seems you didn’t read it well.

Laughing doesn't mean not caring...BTW only Hashems wird is definitive, mine is just MHO. And it is truly humble and totally my own.

chestnut

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:30 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

You missed the part where OP sent their older child to wake them up, unsuccessfully.

amother

Oak

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:33 am

This is a huge pet peeve of mine... I host my BILs/SILs often as we live OOT and they come for yomim tovim and I love having them! But I absolutely hate when they let their young children out of their shared room to play and then continue sleeping without supervising them.

My own children don't go to the kitchen without me, so I can't believe other kids would leave their parents to meander about a stranger's house (relative stranger, but still).... I think it needs to be verbalized, when they come, that they are free to play in the playroom/living room etc but if they are up, at least one parent must be up.

heidi

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:39 am

amother Hyssop wrote:

Are the guests your kids & is said child your grandchild?
This would change things for. I'd supervise the grandchildren & allow their parents to sleep in.

I was suspecting that also
My dil is on complete vacation when they come for shabbat
My absolute pleasure
But she has 2 very well behaved children
And if one of them gets upset or seems tired and out of sorts I wake her up
There is no way I'd allow that kind of destruction in my home, no matter who the child was

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:41 am

chestnut wrote:

You missed the part where OP sent their older child to wake them up, unsuccessfully.

So I stand by my word, they were being human....
I truly dont think its fair to send an older child to wake up parents (throw the tomatoes, I have a great umbrella). The child may not have done what the hostess asked. Hence it was unsuccessful (יגעת ולא מצאת אל תאמין )

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:46 am

amother OP wrote:

No DHs friends family.

And if you didnt go yourself or send your husband to wake them, then its on you. Sending their older child was passive-aggressive. I know you meant to be gentle and expected them to come immediately, red faced and clean up everything, but you were relying on a child to do an adults task.

Next time, set ground rules in advance. What we have learned to do is to prepare our guests as to the mornings schedule (We daven at X, we eat lunch at X, Shalosh Seudah is X). If I expected the parents to make sure the kids are cared for in the morning (I usually love to do it, so it doesnt bother me), I would say so.

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Fri, Jun 14 2024, 2:48 am

amother Oak wrote:

Your own children may not go to the kitchen without you, but my kids most certainly would. And I don't think they are that unusual. Please don't assume that I "let them" out of my room unsupervised.

And perhaps you wake up very easily from any sound, but I am a deep sleeper. I won't necessarily wake up from the sound of a child climbing quietly out of bed and leaving the room.

Making a rule about it isn't going to help. My kids might not remember in the morning that you said they can only leave the room with a parent. They won't change their personality and become clingy just because yours are. I can't wake up from softer noises just because you wish I would.

Please don't let me sleep and be resentful. Just wake me up.