Blackberries | Imamother

Rappel ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 1:42 am

For aficionados of the kosher gardening world:

Someone gifted me a thornless blackberry creeper last year, and this year it's really taking off.

My plan was to train it against the fence, and then cover it with bug netting to prevent the worms. Harvest time: remove the net, take the fruits, secure the net again. It's laborious, but it sounds doable

Is that enough? Do I also need a pesticide? If so, which one? My garden has been completely organic until now, and I would prefer to keep it that way

amother

Peach ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 8:36 am

Always have had a blackberry bush, in backyard, never did anything special to it and never had bug issues and didn't take care of it much either. Its a pretty hardy plant.

↑ Rappel ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 9:11 am

mizle10 wrote:

I thought blackberries can't be eaten due to bug issues and difficult cleaning.

Well, that's why I'm double covering the fruiting canes. If the flies can't get to them, then there can't be maggots in them.

My question is whether I should also be using a pesticide, or can I stop there?

amother

↑ Peach

Fri, May 03 2024, 9:23 am

Pesticides don't stop the bugs. Otherwise the ones in the stores wouldn't have bugs. Look into feeding the plant what it needs & caring for it properly if you want to do the most you can, healthy plants are most resistant to bugs. Check which nutrients are best to feed the plant and maybe look into companion plants that address the weaknesses.

mummiedearest ↓

Fri, May 03 2024, 9:33 am

I don’t have blackberries, but I’d def try the netting.

Side point- any knowledge of blackberries and the orlah issue? If orlah is an issue, I’d use this season to experiment/test for bugginess and consider different strategies if the netting doesn’t work.

amother

Seafoam

Fri, May 03 2024, 9:53 am

We had blackberry bushes in my back yard and in most of them in the neighborhood when I was growing up. We never fertilized or sprayed them, just cut them back when they were trying to take over the garden. My impression is that they are pretty hardy and more or less can grow without support.

↑ nicole81 ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 11:34 am

Aphids are so tiny they're able to get through the double netting. But you might not notice them, as checking fully isn't feasible unless I guess you direct it.

Orlah does apply to blackberries but if you don't know the age of the plant exactly there's leniency to eat from it if it can possibly be of age.

I would speak to a rav in kashrus. I grow and sell produce and you'd be surprised how many bugs can get through double and triple netting and how many can be missed on a light box.

amother

DarkCyan

Sun, May 05 2024, 12:07 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Fascinating!

So do you eat berries?

I don't do blackberries or raspberries anymore because of bugs, but I did as a child. I miss them.

What about strawberries and blueberries? Can they actually be cleaned or are they always buggy? (I usually wash strawberries with soap according to Star-K.)

Traveller247

Sun, May 05 2024, 12:22 pm

amother DarkCyan wrote:

I miss them so much too and would love to grow them hydroponically one day.

Regarding blending, I was told that it's not allowed as it's too infested it's basically guaranteed that you're eating blended insects which is still not allowed. With frozen strawberries, the insects are usually on the outside and they're jet washed so you're not guaranteed to be eating blended insects. The 2 leniencies of blending and jet washing and insects only on the outside make it permitted.
I was told that a non jew may blend blackberries and raspberries for it to be permitted.

↑ nicole81 ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 12:45 pm

amother DarkCyan wrote:

Strawberries and blueberries. And I've grown hydroponic strawberries. Might try hydroponic raspberries this year but first I need to restock on the basics.

↑ mummiedearest ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:05 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Given that the requirement for checking is what you can see with the naked eye, many ppl are not concerned with what we miss on a light box. Aphids are generally an indication of an issue with the plant, aren’t they? And you can often just spray them off with water and remove the damaged part of the plant, from what I understand.

↑ Rappel

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:12 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Thank you! I'm looking into it

From personal experience, I think the aphids in Israel are a bit bigger than the ones in NY/NJ -- definitely visible to the naked eye, for better or for worse. Some are black and some green, and the ants seem to herd them like cows, which is funny to watch.

So from what I've seen in my garden, I think my plan might work, but I won't know until I try, I guess. I wish I could see your set up!

What would you use to confirm that a batch of berries seems kosher?

Would you only grow raspberries hydroponically? How would you keep the bugs out?

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:25 pm

I definitely remember eating all types of berries and leafy vegetables growing up but 40 years later we were made aware of bugs and checking.
Ignorance was bliss I guess?!
Or did we all just become more strict?!

↑ nicole81 ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:26 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Naked trained eye.

Aphids don't necessarily indicate an issue with the plant. They're just part of the ecosystem. And they produce a sticky substance so even power washing the plants can leave a couple. Plus they tend to become the color of what they eat so if you're not attuned to what to look for, they're very easy to miss, even though they can be highly visible to a trained eye.

↑ mummiedearest ↓

Sun, May 05 2024, 1:30 pm

nicole81 wrote:

Fair enough. I think training comes with looking closely, though. I can understand using a light box in a commercial setting, but I wouldn’t avoid the berries necessarily. A healthy plant should have some protective mechanisms against aphids, so a serious infestation shouldn’t be a factor in those.