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-> Purim
amother
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 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:02 pm
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Op you seem so desperate for proving things, please bring a source that women get “just as much schar for changing nappies Yom Kippur as men get davening all day”. Your teacher telling this to you to make you feel good isn’t a source.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:04 pm
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | | Op you seem so desperate for proving things, please bring a source that women get “just as much schar for changing Napier’s Yom Kippur as men get davening all day”. Your teacher telling this to you to make you feel good isn’t a source. |
It’s also because if women won’t feel good, they will wanna go to shul and that would mean that the men alternate. Men also don’t want this. So they take a lot of creative license to keep status quo the way they want it.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:08 pm
Regardless the entire discussion has veered off track.
How you feel about tablescapes, manicures and child rearing has nothing to do with this.
Megillah reading is halachically allowed for women. If you feel it’s too modern for you or your community don’t do it. That’s all.
There were women in 1950 who felt it was too modern for women to work. I mean chassidish communities still feel it’s too modern for women to drive!
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:53 pm
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | | Op you seem so desperate for proving things, please bring a source that women get “just as much schar for changing Napier’s Yom Kippur as men get davening all day”. Your teacher telling this to you to make you feel good isn’t a source. |
The curse of Chava was given to woman. Yes, childbirth is a curse, but it shows that childbirth/childrearing was given to WOMAN. It's clear, black and white in the Torah. Do you need more proof??
And no, Torah isn't taught to make us feel good, rather to do what's right.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:01 pm
| amother OP wrote: | The curse of Chava was given to woman. Yes, childbirth is a curse, but it shows that childbirth/childrearing was given to WOMAN. It's clear, black and white in the Torah. Do you need more proof??
And no, Torah isn't taught to make us feel good, rather to do what's right. |
Several things. One: it’s clear that we don’t learn Halachos from the curses, but simply negative realities that we live with. Like for example, a woman doesn’t HAVE to have a painful birth and a man doesn’t HAVE to work hard. Second: you just ignored my Halachick source. Earlier it says that she doesn’t have to nurse the baby (if they’re divorced) unless she already started.
Third: do you believe the Torah is just and kind?
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:02 pm
| amother Bluebell wrote: | | It’s also because if women won’t feel good, they will wanna go to shul and that would mean that the men alternate. Men also don’t want this. So they take a lot of creative license to keep status quo the way they want it. |
Okay. This is the other part that I can't stand, when we turn men into these big bad powerful conglomerate that have banded together and decided to purposefully oppress women.
I am very sorry for anybody that has a world view like this.
To me it almost feels a little bit conspiracy theoryist...
Also I agree with previous poster.. this is not about megillah.. but about the idea that women have it worse than men.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:07 pm
| amother Blueberry wrote: | Okay. This is the other part that I can't stand, when we turn men into these big bad powerful conglomerate that have banded together and decided to purposefully oppress women.
I am very sorry for anybody that has a world view like this.
To me it almost feels a little bit conspiracy theoryist...
Also I agree with previous poster.. this is not about megillah.. but about the idea that women have it worse than men. |
Honestly, I feel bad for myself as well. And I don’t think this is done consciously. I think subconsciously men want to keep the status quo because it gives them power. They themselves don’t chap. I also don’t look at them as bad. I acknowledge that we are all influenced by ideas we grew up with. It’s just that those ideas hurt me incredibly and don’t check out when you actually learn about it.
I think it’s up to us women to change it, and if we stand up and demand alternating minyanim, it may not even be a fight.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:11 pm
| amother Blueberry wrote: | Okay. This is the other part that I can't stand, when we turn men into these big bad powerful conglomerate that have banded together and decided to purposefully oppress women.
I am very sorry for anybody that has a world view like this.
To me it almost feels a little bit conspiracy theoryist...
Also I agree with previous poster.. this is not about megillah.. but about the idea that women have it worse than men. |
Correct. It's not about megilla. It's about femenism.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:15 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | Correct. It's not about megilla. It's about femenism. |
If your so convinced your right, then why did you ignore my Halachick sources? And my questions? I do call myself an old fashioned feminist, but what I wrote here is Torah based. So I’m just going to say, it seems to me like you have an agenda where your trying to get all women to conform to traditional roles, nothing to do with Yiddishkeit
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:18 pm
| amother Bluebell wrote: | Several things. One: it’s clear that we don’t learn Halachos from the curses, but simply negative realities that we live with. Like for example, a woman doesn’t HAVE to have a painful birth and a man doesn’t HAVE to work hard. Second: you just ignored my Halachick source. Earlier it says that she doesn’t have to nurse the baby (if they’re divorced) unless she already started.
Third: do you believe the Torah is just and kind? |
I don't know an exact Halachic source. But I was taught by some of the worlds best Gedolim and Talmidei Chachomim. Who I would love to name, but I won't in case they get bashed. But I do know how they treat their wives-I was friendly with one of their daughters and spent much time in their houses. The respect and admiration for the mother of that home was better then any mussar sefer or shiur.
And yes, I do believe the Torah is just and kind. And more then that, I KNOW it. Even though I don't always see it.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:20 pm
Right. And all throughout this thread op specifically ignored every post that didn’t fit her narrative and praises those that say the same things as her.
Personally op I think you’re just arrogant.
FYI I’m chassidish and not a modern feminist woman.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:21 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I don't know an exact Halachic source. But I was taught by some of the worlds best Gedolim and Talmidei Chachomim. Who I would love to name, but I won't in case they get bashed. But I do know how they treat their wives-I was friendly with one of their daughters and spent much time in their houses. The respect and admiration for the mother of that home was better then any mussar sefer or shiur.
And yes, I do believe the Torah is just and kind. And more then that, I KNOW it. Even though I don't always see it. |
It could be that you confused having a mitzvah doing it vs. chiyuv. Second, did you see my Halachick source?
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Aurora
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:23 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I don't know an exact Halachic source. But I was taught by some of the worlds best Gedolim and Talmidei Chachomim. Who I would love to name, but I won't in case they get bashed. But I do know how they treat their wives-I was friendly with one of their daughters and spent much time in their houses. The respect and admiration for the mother of that home was better then any mussar sefer or shiur.
And yes, I do believe the Torah is just and kind. And more then that, I KNOW it. Even though I don't always see it. |
None of these are sources.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:35 pm
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | Right. And all throughout this thread op specifically ignored every post that didn’t fit her narrative and praises those that say the same things as her.
Personally op I think you’re just arrogant.
FYI I’m chassidish and not a modern feminist woman. |
Thank you for your kind words.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:35 pm
| amother Bluebell wrote: | | It could be that you confused having a mitzvah doing it vs. chiyuv. Second, did you see my Halachick source? |
Could be. Yes I saw your source.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:39 pm
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | Right. And all throughout this thread op specifically ignored every post that didn’t fit her narrative and praises those that say the same things as her.
Personally op I think you’re just arrogant.
FYI I’m chassidish and not a modern feminist woman. |
Sigh.
Once again, both sides behave the same but only one side gets called out.
Op is not the only one who ignored posts from the other side and praised posts from her side. But she's the only one who gets called arrogant.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:43 pm
| amother Electricblue wrote: | Sigh.
Once again, both sides behave the same but only one side gets called out.
Op is not the only one who ignored posts from the other side and praised posts from her side. But she's the only one who gets called arrogant. |
Ok. I don’t thing OP is arrogant. I think that when you always believed that there’s only one truth, and then you find out it’s grey, that’s very hard.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:44 pm
| amother Electricblue wrote: | Sigh.
Once again, both sides behave the same but only one side gets called out.
Op is not the only one who ignored posts from the other side and praised posts from her side. But she's the only one who gets called arrogant. |
Well she’s the one who opened a thread to “ask an innocent question”. She’s gotten some very good responses which she chose to ignore. But every so often she rushes to “like” a post by someone who’s just parroting her. Didn’t she ask because she wants to hear other points of view? She should’ve just created a thread called “let’s bash on communities who aren’t afraid of doing things that are more modern”.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:44 pm
| amother Bluebell wrote: | | Ok. I don’t thing OP is arrogant. I think that when you always believed that there’s only one truth, and then you find out it’s grey, that’s very hard. |
Save your pity for someone else. It's not hard.
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amother
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:48 pm
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | | Well she’s the one who opened a thread to “ask an innocent question”. She’s gotten some very good responses which she chose to ignore. But every so often she rushes to “like” a post by someone who’s just parroting her. Didn’t she ask because she wants to hear other points of view? She should’ve just created a thread called “let’s bash on communities who aren’t afraid of doing things that are more modern”. |
Correct. I opened the thread to ask 'an innocent question'. I've got my answers, thank you.
I wanted to understand why, I didn't want to be convinced that it's the only correct way.
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