Spoiled generation?

amother

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 1:47 am

I'm not even so old, but a generation younger than me is just wow. Obviously it's very individual, but the way things have become "the norm" is just mind boggling.
I'm talking about tons of cleaning help, nurse for two weeks after giving birth, wedding dresser, traveling several times a year, throwing extravagant parties for their toddlers, upscale restaurants very often...

amother

Mustard

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 2:18 am

I live in Israel, and none of that is part of our world here. Having I’m sure it’s part of somebody’s but I live in RBS which is pretty American and I don’t know anybody that lives life like this. Yes there are those that have a cleaning help but I don’t know anybody from my friends, or my daughter that has married friend that has had a night nurse. Yes we go out to eat with the family sometimes but it’s certainly not upscale and it’s not super often and I can afford those things. One of the biggest things I love about living in Israel is that there is no keeping up with anybody. Yes some people travel more than others.

amother

Lily

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 2:24 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't have any of these things and don't know of many who do, but I don't see them all as the shameless luxuries you portray them as.

Cleaning help can be major for people, especially those who are all thumbs when it comes to housekeeping, and would rather work extra hours and outsource it.

A baby nurse for two weeks can change that first postpartum period from drowning to manageable.

I'd get a wedding dresser when my kids get married, I'm so disorganized that having someone with their head on straight and the ability to troubleshoot all of the mini crises would make the wedding day enjoyable instead of insanely stressful.

For some, traveling is what gives their life color. It's not my thing but I see that for many it really is.

Upscale restaurants... I guess once you have a taste for the finer foods and service and ambience, it can feel worthwhile.

IOW it's not so much "spoiled" as "wealthier and willing to invest in convenience or experiences."

amother

Ecru

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 2:24 am

None of that is the norm in my community. Some of them like cleaning help and baby nurse are because today's young mother's don't have the family support the previous generation did because their mothers work while their grandmother's didn't. For example, My grandmother didn't have hired cleaning help, but her mother lived with them and helped with the kids so she had more time in the day to do her own cleaning.

And the parties and travel are not the norm, just some very rich circles

amother

Yellow

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:29 am

I agree! It’s mind boggling what has become standard. I always wonder what will happen when their real expenses start to come along like bar mitzvahs/weddings. And the clothing they wear is so much more upscale I can’t fargin paying so much. Btw I’m in my upper 30s and many many of my friends started to live like this too and I can’t understand it. What will happen when they get much older. Do they have savings if they’re living such a high standard today?

amother

Moccasin ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:46 am

amother Mustard wrote:

I live in Israel and see this around me. I live in an American area, but my daughter is totally Israeli, married an Israeli, and her friends are Israeli. She was showing me her friend's Whatsapp statuses on Purim. The costumes were all out, head to toe for the entire family, and they, get this, hired a professional photographer for their costume photo shoots. You read that right. We in more American areas may not see this - a lot of us come her for a simpler lifestyle, among other things, and don't have all that much interaction with Israelis. But rest assured, what the OP speaks of is alive and well here.

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:50 am

amother Moccasin wrote:

Agree. I live in Israel and I see a lot of this as well. Not everyone and not everywhere but it is defy a thing.

amother

Rose

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:51 am

I guess I can fall under the category of “spoiled”.

I have full time help. 8:30-5:00. I also have two jobs and without it I’d be in a mental home.

I happen to not like baby nurses so when I have a baby, I do increase my help. I guess that’s spoiled. If your comparing it to israel as another poster did - it cannot be compared. I need my energy to get back to my desk full time at 6 weeks as oppose to women in israel that get 14 weeks off. So ya, I don’t call that a luxury.

Wedding dresser?whats that?

Parties - I know only one person that did an over the top bar and bas mitzva. Everyone else did a standard one. An evening in a shul hall and a Shabbos kiddush. To me, that’s not over the top.

Clothing - yes I know many people that spend. But I noticed, they spend a lot on less clothing. They’ll buy 2-3 expensive outfits vs 5-6 cheaper ones. I always go for more for less. So I guess ppl think I have a nice verity but it’s all from marshalls/ fox’s/ junees at most.

Restaurants- we’ve always appreciated good food. Even when we were poor on occasion we would go out to eat. I don’t see how a nice evening with your spouse can be bad. Even if it’s $300 every 3 months - it good for shalom bais and cheaper than marriage counselling.

Vacations- most times we go away it’s either on points or because we got a very good deal. For those who want to travel and aren’t picky, there are ways to do it without spending thousands. It’s not free but you can definitely lower the costs.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:03 am

amother OP wrote:

To me this speeks of people who have money not spoiled.
I dont know anyone who lives that way.

LovesHashem ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:09 am

amother Periwinkle wrote:

Agree. I live in Israel and I see a lot of this as well. Not everyone and not everywhere but it is defy a thing.

Yeah but it's tiny minority. Also alot of people who I know go all out for purim DIY everything for very cheap and do it because they ENJOY it. No one does it cuz like I "Have to".

Also all the ads for purim photos I saw were geared toward chassidim and are like 150-200 which is like 50-75$. Not that much money. We do them ourselves but no judgment if that brings people joy. I wouldn't call that extravagant at all.

amother

↑ Moccasin

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:16 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Nobody is saying it's everyone. We're saying it exists here, contrary to an above post. Just like it exists there.

(I don't know if I would say 'tiny minority' - we can move this over to the Israel forum but, for example, where I'm more American JPF, I would say my daughter's circle is more modern daati and the extravagance of her age group was a bit mind boggling to me. It just seems like such a waste of money just for the statuses and likes, but now I sound kvetchy and old.)

It's not on the radar of some communities and it is on the radar of others, just like in America.

amother

Ebony

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:45 am

amother Scarlet wrote:

I think materialism is one of this generation’s biggest nisyonos

This.

It seems silly to argue the point when its so obviously true.

This generation in America is debating whether an 8000 sf home is considered a mansion, everyone seems to have 3 fancy strollers, 2 leased cars, fancy clothing for every season, expensive simchas, and on and on.

In Israel the materialism may seem less at furst but really its just manifesting itself differently. I remember Israel 25 years ago to Israel now and its incomparable.

Obviously its not everyone but its a lot of people.

ShishKabob

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:55 am

amother Ebony wrote:

Money is worshipped and the things they buy. I don't think it was always like this. The schools and yeshivas encourage this as you can see with forcing all of the children/parents to raise money. The children that raise the most money are looked up to and announced. Not necessarily those that work the hardest to raise the money or the ones that learn the most.
You really think that if the teachers/administration/principals worship money then it doesn't filter down to the children going through the system? You bet it does.
(they can all 'say' that core things are more important, but that's not what the emphasis is on)
We all know that children absorb what they see way more than what they hear.
Why do all schools and yeshivas need the fanciest up to date buildings?
And the insane simchas these days? It really filters down from the top.
End of rant.

amother

Wandflower ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:15 am

I don’t see any of this around me as a default. But some are not like the others. For those that have no help from family ( including husband ) a baby nurse can be a must for sanity and sleep. Cleaning help also if you work full time, and have a house of kids it’s often needed for sanity because how many pieces can you split yourself into. I think vacation is really good for mental health and everyone should do something in their budget.

I don’t see most of your examples as spoiled.

amother

↑ Wandflower ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:17 am

amother Ebony wrote:

I don’t think using extreme posts here is a good way to judge the way the average person lives. 2,500 square feet is your average big house, 1 stroller, normal simchos, 2 cars usually one bought and old, regular clothing etc.. is your average family.

↑ LovesHashem

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:23 am

Everyone I know has more than one stroller. I have 3, one was free, one was cheap second hand and my snap and go frame was new.

This is a weird thing to list as extravagant. Strollers are functionally, I don't have 3 travel strollers, they are different types with different functions.

amother

Aconite ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:28 am

amother Ebony wrote:

First you say everyone seems to have, then you say obviously not everyone.

And cleaning help and night nurse is not materialism. It’s for mom not to fall apart because help is not so easily Available.

I for one have zero of the things mentioned in the OP, zero family help too. I took care of my own babies all night long. Don’t have cleaning help or anything else. But hey if someone can pull it off why shouldn’t They?
The clothing and a strollers and things is materialism but cleaning help and baby nurse is not

watergirl ↓

Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:35 am

amother Ebony wrote:

This may be true in some parts of America but it is certainly not true of the vast majority of the country's frum Jews. I think you may be describing (from what I've seen here only) parts of Lakewood and Monsey, maybe parts of Brooklyn. This is not at all where I live now or anywhere else I've ever lived.