Please explain to me what wanting woman to Lein Megilla is

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:08 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Just because something might not be benign or acceptable does NOT mean it is a halachic issue. It can and many times is, a social norm.

Please explain what is actually assur about a woman speaking in front of a man. Speaking, not singing.

To be clear, the discussion wasn’t about a woman speaking in front of a man as in a woman speaking to her male neighbor or a woman speaking to her female friend in front of the friend’s husband. The discussion was about public speaking, a woman getting up and speaking in front of a group of men or a mixed group of men and women.
This is definitely a halachic issue not a social construct. Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggros Moshe has at least 2 teshuvos on this topic. Rav Moshe discusses Halacha not social constructs. He discusses the parameters under which it would and would not be permissible for a woman to make a speech in front of men, and in a different teshuva discusses the same with regard to a girl speaking at her bas mitzva. In the שו״ת שבט הלוי of Rav Wosner he also discusses women doing public speaking in front of men and explains the halachic sources that make it assur.
I’m not a halachic authority and I’m certainly not your halachic authority. I’m not taking issue with anything you choose to do and already suggested you consult your own rabbinic authority. I’m only taking issue with the fact you keep saying this is a social construct when it’s clearly a halachic question.

amother

↑ Electricblue ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:15 pm

tichellady wrote:

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. That’s the only difference between us here. I don’t see how theology or ethics have anything to do with anything here. Reform Jews have very little to do with Halacha and certainly don’t care about minhag so I think fretting about them breaking minhag in order to keep Halacha is just bizarre.

I'm putting effort into trying to understand the other side's point of view and see where you are coming from.
In response I'm being told that my point of view is just looking to create problems where there aren't any and that I'm creating mountains out of a molehill.

I get it. You all think that our concerns for minhagim, whether it's about women leining or men lighting shabbos candles, is so meaningless that you can be completely dismissive and not even attempt to see our perspective.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

Yes we are obligated to look after children, that's the reason we're not obligated in time bound mitzvos. We get as much s'char for changing nappies on Yom Kippur as the men do for davening in shul all day.

Strange that noone has contested this.

Anyone?

amother

↑ Powderblue ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:17 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

It comes down to following basic halacha vs being machmir. Leaving men in the audience out of it, basic halacha allows for a woman to read the megillah from a klaf for herself and for other women.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:19 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

In the frum world that I live in, this is not a halachic discussion. So I will say that for me, no, it is not. Its a non issue in my world.
But I guess in your frum world it is an issue.

↑ honey36 ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:25 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

My oot BY (which went by Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetzky as their posek) had women speakers often, with our male (yeshivish) principals and often fathers in the audience.

Sarah Schnirer spoke in front of mixed audience (and sat at the dais with men, who were often the pre-eminent rabbanim of pre-war Europe).

Rebbetzin Jungreis addressed mixed audiences, nobody once ever claimed there was a halachic issue.

Etc....

Ok, I never said it was totally Assur. I was also just stating the fact that yes, it is a halachik issue, and not purely social construct. There is an overlap.

amother

↑ Powderblue

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:28 pm

honey36 wrote:

Ok, I never said it was totally Assur. I was also just stating the fact that yes, it is a halachik issue, and not purely social construct. There is an overlap.

There certainly are mainstream right wing rabbanim that allow it, which is something to be kept in mind in this sort of debate. There are plenty of matters that make up halachic debates which the majority then holds it is allowed. Using your argument you can say there's a halachic issue about plenty of of matters. That's basically the whole oral Torah. Arguments and discussions.

↑ honey36

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:42 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

I totally agree. I was responding to some other posters who seemed to be claiming there's was no halachik issue at all and it was all purely social construct.

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

We don't actually know the reason that women are exempt from time bound mitzvos, it's a chok. Some have suggested that it's because they need to be available for their husbands... I don't think taking care of children is spoken about in halachah, though its certainly a practical consideration.

amother

↑ Smokey

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:46 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

In the frum world that I live in, this is not a halachic discussion. So I will say that for me, no, it is not. Its a non issue in my world.
But I guess in your frum world it is an issue.

You might have noticed the first time you brought it up I suggested you consult your own rabbinic authority. I suspect even your own rabbinic authority might tell you that even though he and the rabbis he follows permit it, there are those who don’t, or those who only permit it in certain circumstances. In other words, even your rabbis who permit it will agree it’s a halachic discussion.
You may be happy with your answer and prefer to forgo the mental exercise in conducting a halachic discussion, but that doesn’t remove the fact that the halachic discussion exists. People who don’t rule as your rabbis do are relying on Halacha not on social construct.

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 5:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

And men do too.

Isnt there a Chassidishe meysa about this? Was it the Berditchiver Rebbe? I don't remember who it was. But bottom line we ALL get as much schar - possibly more - for changing diapers as for davening in shul on Yom Kippur.

amother

↑ Blueberry ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 6:45 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

In the frum world that I live in, this is not a halachic discussion. So I will say that for me, no, it is not. Its a non issue in my world.
But I guess in your frum world it is an issue.

You seem to have a very strong agenda here.

Yes there are communities where women would not speak in front of men.
Yes there are communities that view motherhood as such a high calling it supersedes time bound mitzvos even learning Torah.

Obviously your rabbanim hold differently. Shouldn't you be open minded enough to realize that?

Acceptance goes both ways

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 6:48 pm

amother Blueberry wrote:

This is false. There is no such community. It is straight up halachah for everybody - Chassidush, yeshivish, sefardic, Modern Orthodox. And it has nothing to do with motherhood. Single girls/women and women without children are not required in time bound mitzvos either. In any frum community.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 6:52 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

You want someone to? Why?

Because everything I always thought on this subject has been challenged on this thread.

So curious about this and would like to hear the source that says woman are not obligated in childcare. That's all.

Maybe because it's untrue?

amother

↑ Blueberry ↓

Tue, Mar 26 2024, 6:55 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Ok I was trying to be politically correct lol.

But it's not always true a single or childless woman, or someone with older kids is not necessarily exempt from mitzvos like tefillah and fasting..

The idea is that obviously woman have mitzvos but once she has children that takes priority.