Please explain to me what wanting woman to Lein Megilla is

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:01 pm

amother Tan wrote:

I don’t know any women like this. Maybe it’s because I don’t have Instagram or Facebook or any type of social media. The women I know who don’t work are involved in tons of chesed. Even the women who do work are doing tons of chesed. Yes, most make time to go to the kosher gyms and to take care of themselves, but no one I know is just going and shopping and being on Instagram all day. (And the people I k ow who have social media and post are usually very insecure and need people to ooo and aaaa over them. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, everyone needs some positive compliments, but she. It takes over their life that is when the problems start but this thread isn’t about the evils of Facebook and Instagram.

It does sound as though we know different people. The men in my life - in my estimation at least - seem to be on a higher spiritual level as they daven more, learn more, and yes, even do lots of chesed. And tzedakah, which is something that only the man can do if he's the one working and bringing in the income.

But I have a different question for you.

Why do you think it's better for women to do tons of chesed than to read the megillah? Maybe the women doing tons of chesed are really doing it for the kovod? And the women reading megillah are doing it lsheim shamayim? I think it was you who mentioned that you can't weigh or measure the value of a mitzvah - how are you so sure that doing tons of chesed is inherently better than reading a megillah? What makes one mitzvah more valuable than the other?

amother

↑ Tan ↓

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:06 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

I don’t think I said that.
Maybe they are doing chesed for the kavod, which is also misguided. I never said one is better, I said they’re different and different people do different things. I wouldn’t ask my auto mechanic for stock advice. That sort of thing.

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:12 pm

amother Tan wrote:

This is what you said:

amother Tan wrote:

Ummm I don’t do all this.
I don’t think women who lein are doing it lishma. They’re doing it for kavod. To prove to everyone they can do it. Which is completely misguided.

You seem to feel that it is misguided to lain, but the women in your life who do lots of chesed are the good, spiritual women living on a higher plane.

We all do things for kovod, that's not necessarily a bad thing. And you seemed to have decided that doing lots of chesed is a good woman's mitzvah, while laining from a megillah is misguided. What basis do you have for your claim?

And can you explain your last sentence - who are you not asking for what? I'm a bit confused.

amother

↑ Oxfordblue ↓

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:24 pm

@tan and the others on this thread -

My point here is that spirituality looks different to different people. You may feel that the way to become more spiritual and become closer to G-d is to do tons of chesed - but maybe that pathway doesn't talk to everybody. Maybe someone else feels more spiritual and closer to G-d when they do something else. As you yourself said, we can't measure mitzvos and we don't know which are more valuable...

Maybe you don't know these women, but I do. There ARE many women in our community who are not doing chesed all day... I find it sad that it's more acceptable in our community to browse instagram or shop all day than it is to do something like laining...

princessleah

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 3:56 am

I don’t understand this line about lighting candles, challah and TH being “women’s Mitzvot.” They’re not. They just end up being done by women because of traditional division of labor.
Challah—if a man makes challah, he is also obligated to make. I know a few men who bake challah— they are not exempt from taking challah because they are men.

Candles— same. If a man is alone for Shabbat, he is obligated to light candles. Women in marriages typically end up doing this because the husband goes to shul.

TH— yes women are obligated to go to the Mikvah when they are Tahor. But before modern times men went plenty, sometimes every morning. Any morning after having relations with spouse. There is lots of talk in the Talmud and other sources about going to the mikvah.

So no these are not women’s mitzvahs at all. Neither are zedaka or chessed. Men are obligated up give ma’aser like everyone else. Learning doesn’t make you exempt

amother

DarkRed

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 5:57 am

I don't want it instead of men having it. I want it because they I have the option to read for myself while I have little kids around. I can't tell you how many times I went tl shul and kids were so loud I couldn't hear the megillah and asked a shaila and was told I need to hear it again. Or I had my own little kids and couldn't get out to megillah or they were too loud to take to shul. This way I can read for myself and be yotzei and my little girls can hear too.

amother

Electricblue ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:20 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Yes, spirituality looks different for different people.
I don't browse Instagram, but my sister does and she also does a lot of shopping. Trust me, she does more good with her shopping than you laining megilla.
She has an organization that sets up kallah's homes. She helps me shop for my children. She helps so many people who know that if you need clothing or appliance advice, you turn to her.

You seem so proud of yourself for your open-minded views on feminism and women laining. You don't have to bash more typical female pursuits in order to elevate your own.

Honestly, you sound like a man.

Golde ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:42 am

Hi OP, I saw your question when you posted it but didn't get around to answer because as you know... us women have a lot to do. It isn't easy to find time. I'm not sure if you actually want to hear why some women want this or if you're just trying to stir the pot and have made up your mind already. But in case you actually are genuinely interested, I'd like to explain how I came into this and why I do it. There's no pressure for you to follow. Do what works for you.

A good few years ago, I was approached by the rabbi of our shul who asked me to take part in a women's megilla reading. Our community had never had one before. My initial reaction was indeed "no, it's not my thing, I have enough to do already, I don't particularly enjoy the limelight, I'm not sure if I'm capable of doing it correctly." However the rav persuaded me by saying how important he meant it would be for the shul, how it would bring more people closer to the mitzvot of Purim, how he would like to see the women of our shul more involved in religious life and someone needed to be the first and actually learn the parts and he would personally help us. So I felt pressured to say yes. It was, after all, the rav of the shul who asked and he framed it as if he really needed me to do this.
So I took it on. I learned one perek that first year. And you know what? I really loved it. It was an intellectual challenge, it was difficult, it was hours and hours and hours of practising. But I unexpectedly felt so close to Hashem. It felt holy. The learning was truly very, very meaningful to me.

I've been leyning most Purims since then. It's the time of year I feel most connected to mitzvot and my yiddishkeit, it really is. This is why I keep doing it year after year. Yes, it takes away time from other things. But this is what I personally want to prioritise.

I hope this answers your question. I can only speak for myself. Other women might have other reasons. I'm sure it depends on who you ask. But this is my story.

spikta ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 6:43 am

Speaking for myself, I always heard my father practicing megillah every year so it wasn't hard to learn. And it was always calming to know that if for whatever reason we needed to hear megillah, my father would read for us. Since we bought a megillah, purim is much less stressful. I still go to the regular readings at shul. But if I'm sick, or PP, or a child from that 9 page thread started kvetching in the middle and I missed a word, I go home and read for myself. No stress, no drama. I've also read for sick/PP friends that much prefer a nice lady come to their house and read instead of some random strange man.

↑ essie14 ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:20 am

Golde wrote:

💙❤️🩵💜🤍💛💚

↑ essie14 ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:22 am

amother Electricblue wrote:

Oh puh-lease. Your insults aren't making you look pretty.
Great, your sister is a tzadeket. You can admire her without disparaging hundreds of other women.
Oxfordblue was completely respectful and you are quite frankly, pretty obnoxious.

amother

↑ Electricblue ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 7:41 am

essie14 wrote:

I didn't disparage a single woman, let alone hundreds, except for the one who had to frame the issue as shallow instagram addicted women vs spiritual megilla laining women.

You talk a big talk about how we shouldn't disparage women's choices or desires. But when I defend the women who like to shop, you respond with sarcasm and insults.

As you have so kindly put it, puh-lease.

amother

↑ Bluebell ↓

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 8:08 am

amother Quince wrote:

So men and women are totally equal?

Yes. I think both are equally valuable (although some of their value may come from different places)

Both were created in the image of Hashem.

Both can be equally productive (although we may have different strengths)

Both have the ability to make choices and to work on themselves.

Why do men have to lead and why do you think women are less than?