Denim | Imamother

lady chan

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 9:11 pm

Nowadays I see that demin is a fabric that many married women do not wear. As a child of the 80's, as long as the skirt was long and the slit was closed, denim was acceptable (even in the Bais Yaakov community - not chasidish).We even wore fly front denim skirts without thinking twice. I still wear denim (not fly front anymore) when I clean my house, but I would not wear it to my daughters' school. (I live in America. I have relatives in E"Y who told me that wearing denim there, makes a statement.) Please pardon my naiveness, but could someone please explain to me what the problem is with wearing it.

Beauty and the Beast ↓

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 9:49 pm

ahhh, how I long for those innocent, simple days where things were just things and not made into issues.
I remember walking happily thru my neighborhood in my biz skirt, with no worries. But these days, as with everything denim has become a no-no. Don't ask me why. Maybe because there are ways to wear it that look cheap and non jewish? THat can happen with everything.
my guess is as good as yours.

Mrs. XYZ ↓

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 10:55 pm

Quote:

Which "innocent, simple days" are you talking about? As far as I remember, denim was always an issue by chassidishe (and I'm a little older than you, and it was way before my times too).

And no, I'm not even going to bother trying to explain what is "wrong" with it, and why many dont wear it. I'm tired.

↑ Beauty and the Beast ↓

Sun, Aug 17 2008, 11:41 pm

well, mrs. xyz, I come from a nice, heimish home. My father is a very choshuve man who learns day and night. He still does not see what is wrong with a nice comfortable denim, skirt as long as it is within tznuis. It all depends on how you look at it.

The innocent, simple days I am reffering to are the late 80's. early 90's.
I remember many, many girls wore denim skirts. I even remember being so happy when I lost weight one summer that I can wear my shirt tucked in for once, into my nice denim skirt.

then again, I am not a certain chassidus, so I cannot speak for all of you. But I do know that all the heimish, and chassidish inclined girls wore denim.
And you are right, you don't have to bother trying to explain the rights and wrongs of it. Because everyone has different senses of what that is.

catonmylap

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 2:02 am

I'm from your generation as well.

The "change" to no-denim that I noticed was after seminary. I went to a seminary where all the girls wore denim. I even bought a "biz" skirt for tiyulim since everyone had one. I noticed that at the other more right-wing seminaries(where my high school friends were) no one wore denim (at least not on a regular basis). Post-seminary everyone else started "dressing up" more so denim went out. I'm curious when it became a "no-no" for everyone all the time.

The E"Y difference comes from the split between the charedi and dati leumi. Since dati leumi girls wore denim, as I understand it, they became assur for charedi girls. It's a mistake to say that everyone "frum" doesn't wear denin, since "we" are frum too. My mil just related a story with a friend of hers who is Israeli but moved to NY. My mil insisted that she was dati leumi and her friend said she wasn't. Her friend said you can't be dati leumi because you are frum...

Kmommy18 ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:32 pm

I have yet to understand what is "wrong" with denim. No one ever explained it to me. Oh and, what's the difference between front fly or a back zipper? Why is a front fly "unacceptable"? I just don't get it.

octopus ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:38 pm

In elementary school, the principal made it very clear that denim skirts with fly front skirts is a man-style (the front fly- not the skirt part).

I wear denim. My skirts are tznius. When I have to go to any school functions, etc. I probably won't be wearing denim as that is not acceptable to the schools.

tovasmom

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:39 pm

I do know that when I went to HS (during the 80s, preuniform) denim was OK, even to school as long as it was tzniyut. Was not OK in E"Y for seminary, except when we went on tiyulim. All I know is that now, with my oldest dd in HS, I have been told by her that if I don't lose my snood and denim skirt (even if it is a "nerdy" length and w/o any slit of any kind) she will not be able to find a shidduch after HS. I too am mystified as to what happened!

I don't know when I missed something, but I definitely missed something!

greenfire ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:39 pm

people just have nothing better to do than to make things taboo ... anyways the chassidishe peoples wear fancy clothes on weekdays ...

denim is comfortable and practical as well and I think more guys should wear it too ... instead of ruining black & white not to mention it is no dif than shabbos for them ...

↑ Mrs. XYZ ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:42 pm

Kmommy18 wrote:

Thats exactly it. Cause there is nothing really "wrong" per se. Some feel that there it is a bit prost or modern. If you dont feel it or understand it, go ahead and wear it.
It is just as futile to try to explain this as it is is the issue of women driving.

Ruchel ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:51 pm

I already see some circles trying to make all this craziness the norm for French ultra Orthodox. But just yesterday I still saw plenty of charedi girls dressed as mentioned above (the kind that wear tights at 3), and no one thought anything.

↑ Beauty and the Beast ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:55 pm

The problem with a fly front is that it makes it look like a pair of pants.
I would never wear a skirt with a fly front, or with 2 huge pockets on the back, not that very flattering anyway!

↑ Ruchel

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:57 pm

Beauty and the Beast wrote:

The problem with a fly front is that it makes it look like a pair of pants.

sorry but... huh???

Fashion advice: flat pockets are ok. Never put anything inside!

↑ octopus

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 12:59 pm

People can make lists from here to china of what colors, styles, or materials are acceptable and non-acceptable. But there will always be people that will find a way to get around something, and what they wear won't be tznius, but technically not breaking any "guidelines."

People have to use their own common sense with tznius. So much emphasis is put on specific materials and styles versus what tznius really is.

I heard so many things in high school about tznius (all the things you can't do) that whenever I hear someone, in conversation or a speaker, talk about tznius, I internally cringe. That really bothers me, since tznius is really supposed to be a beautiful mitzvah.

I have a feeling, though, that a lot of people cringe too, and avoid speeches on tznius.

ny_ima ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 1:06 pm

Quote:

My father is a very choshuve man who learns day and night. He still does not see what is wrong with a nice comfortable denim, skirt as long as it is within tznuis.

my kinda guy! I wish ppl would stop putting so much empahsis on tafel and less so on ikar! constantly judging ppl on what they wear and if they fit into the holier than thou levush, they r A-OK is shallow imho. tolerance should go both ways, whether wear denim or not...

↑ Beauty and the Beast

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 2:41 pm

ny_ima wrote:

Quote:

My father is a very choshuve man who learns day and night. He still does not see what is wrong with a nice comfortable denim, skirt as long as it is within tznuis.

thanks! yes, my father is very much that kind of person. He is tolerant, and wouldn't judge ppl. ( yes, he is from out of town. mainly the reason why I wanted to marry an out of towner! I got an out of countrier!)

Ruchel, I did not explain myself well. The fly is a problem for many ppl. For me, it looks like the front of pants, so it gets me nervous. I don't think it is the only reason why ppl don't like a fly. ( another reason for me, is that it is not that flattering on my post baby stomach....)

↑ greenfire ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 2:46 pm

hey some girls just wanna roll out of bed and throw on the jeans - at least it's a skirt ... and we are not packing anything last I checked ...

↑ Mrs. XYZ ↓

Mon, Aug 18 2008, 2:51 pm

ny_ima wrote:

Quote:

My father is a very choshuve man who learns day and night. He still does not see what is wrong with a nice comfortable denim, skirt as long as it is within tznuis.

What? Just because I dont feel comfortable wearing denim, that means I'm judging others? What does one have to do with the other? Confused

Why do some people have such complexes?