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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:17 am

We live in a place where the Jewish religious infrastructure is scarce ( moving is not an option at the moment). Most of the frum families send their children to schools/ yeshivoth abroad at some point past bat/bar mitzvah age. That's what we did with our oldest and BH, both they and we are very happy we did. Our younger kids go to a secular Jewish school plus do online learning.
Our ds ( now 16) is BH a great kid, kind and thoughtful. He takes his religious observance seriously and is generally very responsible. At the same time, he is extremely passive, with no drive, very introvert, hates changes and feels most comfortable lying on his bed the whole day with his laptop.
Since he became bar mitzvah we stated talking about ours been not the right place for him and that one day he will probably will have to think about going off to a yeshivah. DS was opposed at the beginning but gradually seemed to adjust himself to the idea, and, at some point, looked ready. We looked into some options and one of them seemed a good match. DS seemed receptive, so my husband arranged for the two of them to fly in for a couple of days and see the place with their own eyes. And- surprise- DS refuses to go pointblank. We were very aware it was his fear of changes but we persuaded him to give it a try. ( we had very hard time persuading him. Very). He came back relaxed and happy. The place did not turn out to be as good as he had expected ( I could not get him explain what he had expected) but he was willing to consider it, just wanted a few days to process the whole experience ( my husband said the place was a very acceptable option, and the yeshiva was also willing to accept ds). So, after a couple of days, we try to talk to him, like what do you think ds. And he won't talk to us. Won't say what he thinks, won't hear what we say, he doesn't know what to say, he doesn't know what to do, this is too much for him just please please please leave him alone.
What is clear as a day to me: it is not sth about the place that he hates. It's 1) the idea of leaving his caspule, the familiar environment. 2) the actual decision making. These two things virtually make him depressed. My heart goes out to my boy, I would be happy to leave him alone and have him stay near me as long as he needs. It's just that I feel there is a good chance that once ( if) he overcomes this initial fear and takes this first step, he#ll be in a much, much better place, spiritually, mentally and socially. I feel he looses out so much by not giving it even a try.
We tried to offer compromises like him going for a couple of months, or having him fly home as often as he likes ( it's a long way and pricey but we are willing to do it, and the yeshiva does not object at the beginning to boys going home more frequently). He just won't listen.
Should we let go and let him live like he lives ( no social life outside school, compromised learning, laptop)? Should we decide for ourselves we are doing it and impose the decision on him no matter what ( what?)? should we... what should we do?

tichellady

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:31 am

I'm not sure what you should do but I do think it's a really big deal to expect such a young kid to be ok with leaving his family. I know this is the norm in a lot of places but I think it's kind of a crazy expectation.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:34 am

tichellady wrote:

I agree. I don’t think it’s abnormal to want to stay at home. I’d be concerned that if he is forced to go away when he doesn’t want to on account of yiddishkeit that he may start to resent yiddishkeit—which would be counter productive.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:38 am

tichellady wrote:

I know. I am not expecting him to feel ok ( although my oldest did, but tis is definitely not a reason to expect him to feel ok) . I just do not want to miss the point when it becomes too much of not ok, so that I say, now here is where I have to stop.

Laiya

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:41 am

Agree with the above, don't force him. You gave him the option, that's the most you can do. If you keep trying to force him to explain what he doesn't like, that can become a power struggle.

If he were a year or 2 older and you think he struggles with anxiety and that is a big part of the issue, you can offer him therapy to address that. But there too, it has to be his choice and he has to be willing to go to therapy. But at 16 I would let him be.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:48 am

NotInNJMommy wrote:

I totally agree. It's just that it is not for yiddishkeit alone, there are other considerations, like lack of structure and lack of social life. As I said he takes his yiddishkeit very seriously and I don't think he would , chas veshalom, go OTD if he stayed here.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 8:49 am

Laiya wrote:

Thank you.

icedcoffee

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:07 am

Quote:

Our ds ( now 16) is BH a great kid, kind and thoughtful. He takes his religious observance seriously and is generally very responsible. At the same time, he is extremely passive, with no drive, very introvert, hates changes and feels most comfortable lying on his bed the whole day with his laptop.

This honestly sounds pretty fine to me! As others have said, it's risky to make him go. Even if he does have a fear of change, it's very normal to not want to leave home at age 16. It's not something you need to push him to overcome. Besides that, being great, kind, thoughtful, religious, and responsible sounds like he - and you! - are definitely doing something right. I don't think you're describing anything drastic that really needs to be addressed. Maybe see if he can get involved in some sort of hobby or organization or volunteering if you're concerned, but I wouldn't send him away if he's not into the idea. To me, what you're describing actually feels pretty normal for a 16 year old. Even as an adult I can relate to a lot of it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:19 am

icedcoffee wrote:

Quote:

Thank you! This sounds reassuring. He won't get involved into anything, tht's the problem.

Another problem. yes, he is responsible. Yes, he takes it seriously. But her's an example: His learning. He'd never say: I do not feel like learnin to day, or I am too tired to learn ( even if e is). But, recently his chevrusa said he is no longer able to learn with him every day as they used to do, only 1 or twice or week. And he is perfectly ok with it, I cannot imaging him saying like I want more, who could I learn with? so, responsible, yes, but not much interest in that either ;8

amother

Burntblack ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:20 am

I wish you could set screen time limits, but he is probably too old by now. It sounds like this has been going on for years with no limits set.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:28 am

amother Burntblack wrote:

I wish you could set screen time limits, but he is probably too old by now. It sounds like this has been going on for years with no limits set.

He had screen limits until he got his own laptop for his bar mitzvah from a relative ( I had not been asked). and then it started to slip gradually. But if it is not his lap top, it's a book or a magazine. He won't meet a friend , for example or go play soccer or whatever.

amother

↑ Burntblack

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:31 am

amother OP wrote:

That's really not considerate of that relative. Either way, in my opinion, parents have the right to set limits no matter where the child got the device from. It's our job to make sure our kids grow up right.

I understand being an introvert, I am one myself. But I still think a book is healthier than spending hours on a laptop.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 9:36 am

amother Burntblack wrote:

True. But, as I said, I let it slip, and now, as you said, it's too late to set screen limits anew.

amother

Birch ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 11:03 am

Here is my two cents:

I am an introvert, homebody type person. I like my creature comforts. I have a small social circle. I am very comfortable being on my own, in my own space, and am not particularly motivated to move out of it. A big part of my life is how much I hate change...but often change is the right choice...
I remember school shabbatons, which I dreaded. I remember overnight camp, which I initially dreaded until I got used to it. I remember how difficult it was to go off to seminary, where I eventually had a fun year.

Of course all those social interactions were necessary. I was just too comfortable in my own little world to want to go to any. So, my suggestion is that your son needs to learn some life skills that help him adapt better to the outside world/ socially and stop making him retreat into his cozy cave and his laptop. Right now he is doing it because it is the easier choice. He isnt motivating himself in learning because he feels no need to push himself. He is going to have to go away at some point. He needs some counseling or coaching to help him.

I think my anxiety and fears would have been a lot less if I would have had the necessary tools to overcome them...

amother

Milk

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 11:39 am

To me it sounds like a lot of anxiety which needs to be addressed.

He is getting closer to becoming an adult. He will need to be able to expand his social life, adjust to changes, take initiative, etc.

I would consult with a professional and not just leave things alone.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 12:04 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Thank you for writing this. This is exactly how I feelabout the whole situation.
The question is do I have him learn it hard way I.e. sending him away and et him have to figure out things for himself? or in a gentler way-like therapy, coaching Which he might refuse as well as a poster above wrote

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 12:06 pm

amother Milk wrote:

thank you. I am definitely considering it

amother

↑ Birch

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 1:10 pm

"Thank you for writing this. This is exactly how I feelabout the whole situation.
The question is do I have him learn it hard way I.e. sending him away and et him have to figure out things for himself? or in a gentler way-like therapy, coaching Which he might refuse as well as a poster above wrote"

Definitely the gentler approach. The hard way is a tough teacher. Even though you get used to it, when you return back home and then have to go out again, you still face all those uncomfortable feelings, and you feel the resistance.
The skills he would learn from a therapist or coach would be skills he would have for life so he would know how to face the challenges each time they come up. Its hard to battle them yourself...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2023, 1:28 pm

amother Birch wrote:

Thank you. I need to figure out how to get him see a therapist:))
I used (and still, to some degree, am) this way myself. I had to learn it the hard way and it tough it was. Still I am grateful I could do it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Nov 09 2024, 10:47 am

I am bumping this up to express my deepest gratitude to Hashem for yrt another time leading us onto the right path- through doubts, insecurities, fears and difficulties.
We ended up telling ds he is going. If after three months he is not ok there, he' ll come back home.
It was a very hard time both for him and for us, initially. Yet, it' s over a year later and I see it was the right step to take. He's benefitted so much, both in term of his yiddishkit, and his personal growth. He' a different person, so much happier and more mature.
I am not writing this to tell anyone that' s what to do in a similar situation. I just want to thank Hashem for being there and answering our tearful tfillos and yet another time not letting us down . Thank You Hashem

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