help please-3 year old refuses to say a word to morah

Seraph ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 1:47 pm

I have been working with a gan since october, part time as an assistant, and now I've taken over full time. There is this one girl in the gan that hasnt said a word to me, EVER.
By April, she started talking a little bit to the previous ganenet, but now she is on maternity leave.
We thought at first the reason she didnt talk is because of the language barrier- its an english speaking gan and shes from an israeli home, but thats apparently not the issue now because she understands english perfectly.
She is very shy- at the beginning of the year I never heard her speak, so wasnt sure if she was even able to. But now that she got more comfortable with the gan kids, she talks to them all the time. And I hear her conversations with them, she has fun with them, etc.
But she will not say a word to me. If she wants something, she stands next to me and I have to go through a list of questions with her "are you hungry? thirsty? have to pee? poo? etc" till she nods her head at the right one.
She is very adamant not to talk to me or make a sound- she will have tears rolling down her cheeks, and her face in a scowl, but she wont make a sound around me.
She wont call me to wipe her after she poops, so one time I didnt catch it and go to her to wipe her, and I found poop in her underwear bec she doesnt know how to wipe. But she refuses to say a word ti me.

Does anyone have any experience with a kid like this? She talks at home, but not to people she doesnt know. And she refuses to smile around me. EVER.
Whats the cause for this? What can I do to help her? I really am worried about her for next year- now shes in a gan with 8 other kids, next year shes gonna be in a city gan with 30 kids and I dunno what will happen. Any suggestions?

BeershevaBubby ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 1:52 pm

Don't ask her yes or no questions?

marina

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 1:52 pm

selective mutism. Google it. Also many people on this board have kids with this. They will respond to your thread. Kid will be okay. Especially if she talks to friends.

↑ Seraph ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 1:58 pm

YESHASettler wrote:

Don't ask her yes or no questions?

Then I get nowhere, nothing, just a sulky look.

↑ BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:01 pm

Um.. then too bad?

There was this family in my parents' shul for a while and until their son was 3 years old, the kid didn't speak. One Shabbat he went to the candyman for a candy and the man wouldn't give him anything until he actually asked for it. The parents were astounded at this 'miracle'.

Basically what had been happening was the kid would point or nod or shake his head to the questions anyone asked. After a while, the parents conditioned themselves to phrase their questions as yes or no.

When faced with a situation where the kid wanted something badly enough but the adult refused to play his game, he had to start speaking.

smiley:) ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:04 pm

My neice was like this but it was towards everyone within gan - not the same ppl out of gan. When she went to a different gan the next yr it was different. Something about gan bothered her. Actually I also wouldnt talk to a teacher in nursery school. Something bothered me about her. Maybe just try to change the way you relate to her - maybe very quiet, or not demanding a response right away. Like if you see she needs help with something rather than asking if she wants help, say "I see you might need help with x. If you want my help I will be there." Do things that leave options open to her but dont ask questions which require her to respond on the spot. Make her in control.

↑ Seraph ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:04 pm

marina wrote:

selective mutism. Google it. Also many people on this board have kids with this. They will respond to your thread. Kid will be okay. Especially if she talks to friends.

does she need some sort of therapy? Because I know as of now shes not getting any treatment

↑ smiley:)

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:05 pm

None of us can diagnose her. But not every kid with selective mutism needs therapy. Actually when my sister spoke to a professional about it they told her that in her daughter's case it could cause her to close up more.

gryp ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:12 pm

breslov wrote:

check out selective-mutism.org and read read read as much as you can. Only by understanding this can you help her and not hurt her.

She has decided to be like this and no convincing will change her mind. The worst thing you can do is try to encourage her or bribe her into talking or smiling. It can completely devastate her.

My 4 yr old did this. He's still growing out of it a bit, but he's a completely changed child once we understood what he was going through and why he did this.

The ONLY way to cure selective-mutism is by pretending all is fine and that this child is just like all the others. The child feels extremely self-conscious and only by the teacher pretending everything is normal will the child let her guard down and be herself. As you see improvements in the child's behavior and talking, the worst thing you can do is make a big deal. The teacher needs to put on her best act and completely ignore the improvements, continuing the pretense that this child is just like all the others. Don't even flinch or smile as the child starts to talk or smile or be herself. Just keep doing what you were doing.

If you're interested, I'll tell you how we did this without therapy. It was pretty cool.

mammamia

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 2:25 pm

My daughter did the same thing in her gan for the beginning of this year. the teacher called us in for a meeting, we discussed maybe a language barrier as well but that was not the case bec she was conversing with all the kids just not the teachers. My mother who is a preschool director suggested that we ignore it but to casually mention to her once in a while that it is OK to talk to her teachers...over time it totally took care of itslef and now she doesn't stop!

hila

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 4:06 pm

I have a friend who is an expert in selective mutism .
She works in jerusalem and in private .
PM me if you want her number. It does need treatment, and it is not too unusual especially ina multilingual setting.
Please dont leave it for next year as then she will be in a larger gan. It can be treated over the summer too.

behatslacha

abismommy

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 4:22 pm

there's a woman in lakewood - shaindel cohen - who has been successfully trating selective mutes in her kindergarten for about 25 years. she spoke at a torah umesorah convention a few years ago and they recorded it. I got a tape from them for my daughter who had this problem and a student of mine too. GR is right on the mark. she needs to be a full paricipant in all activities, even non-verbally. so, for example, during play, someone needs to be there with her to "speak" for her until she is ready to speak for herself. and that is waht the other children need to hear. not that she "can't speak" but that "im sure she knows that answer and will tell us when she's ready" - to keep her confidence up. and definitedly NOT to draw attention to the fact that she is "different". pretend that she is the same as everyone else.
she will get over it with the right kind of matter-of-fact encouragement and "benign neglect". I can get the tape for you or at leaast the contact info of you want.
our daughter also made strides over the course of the school year...B"H!
PM me for details.

happymom ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 6:14 pm

I would make a special effort to be very warm and loving to that child. to catch her doing right things and compliment her, and eventually she would prob open up. thats what happend with a shy kid in my class

↑ gryp ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 7:48 pm

Quote:

The worst thing you can do is try to encourage her or bribe her into talking or smiling. It can completely devastate her.

I just wanted to emphasize this point again. Try to understand how embarrassed a self-conscious person would be by you bringing attention to her. It can make them plummet to the depths of self-hate. It's serious. The child does not want to be different, wants very very badly to be like everyone else, but cannot bring himself to. And the bathroom accidents, being pushed around by other kids, it all makes it so much worse.
Never say "I'll buy you this ice cream cone if you just smile, speak one word," etc. The child wants the ice cream cone so so badly but will never allow himself to "earn" it. And it only makes him hate himself more. Nebach on such a young child who feels such a self-hate.
A child like this needs CARE. If she cannot ask to go to the bathroom she should be allowed to go on her own whenever she needs to. She needs constant checking up on to make sure her needs (being wiped, etc) are being taken care of. She needs constant monitoring to make sure she doesn't feel threatened by any of the other children in the group or by any adult around there. Lots of hugs and warmth via non-verbal communication.
Many times a child with selective-mutism may have small breakthroughs by doing something that is easier to them than talking. The child may enjoy singing or dancing. Try it! My son only opened his mouth back then when the teacher called on him to stand up in front of the class and recite the pasuk of "Torah Tziva." Guess what? They called on him every day and he loved it. He finally felt normal, just like everyone else! Sometimes there is a certain word or words they get stuck on and they just won't let it out of their mouth. My son still will not say "Hi" or "Bye" to his teachers. He just can't. And my pushing him to do so when I didn't realize what was going on, made things much worse. Once I realized what I was doing to him, we made up that he could hug his teachers instead, and he loved that. He still hugs his last year's teachers every day because of that. But he still can't say "hi" and "bye" to them.
We solved the problem of saying "hi" to his teacher in the morning when coming into school, (well he actually thought of it himself) by thinking of one little thing he might want to tell his teacher about that happened since he saw her yesterday, to replace the "hi." It worked great, and he still saves little stories to tell his Morah about that he thinks she would appreciate.

The bottom line to solving selective-mutism is for the child to get used to the new setting he's placed in, and then hearing his voice loud and clear. When he sees the ceiling didn't fall in or lightning didn't strike at the sound of his voice, it gives him tremendous confidence and encouragement. And you build from there. But you don't make a big deal, you don't make any deal. You just pretend nothing ever happened. And keep building slowly.

We did it with a video camera. My son watched a home video of himself in the classroom and heard himself speaking on the video. No one else was around except my husband. Then with my son's permission we invited one of his teachers in to watch the tape with him, and from that day on he felt mostly comfortable speaking to that teacher. And he kept going from there.

If you would see my son at age 3 when he started school (or even at age 2, he was like this around strangers) and you see him now about to turn 5 KA"H and finishing his second year in school, you would not believe it is the same child.

GAMZu ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:07 pm

My son is like this. I didn't really speak to the Rebbe extensively about this, but maybe I should.
In the beginning of the year he was quiet, but talked.

Then for various reasons we took him out for 4 months. He came back after Pesach and the Rebbe said that he hasn't said a word in class since then.

↑ gryp ↓

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:12 pm

Gamzu, I think you should check out what's going on. My son started the year talking a bit too, but after Sukkos he suddenly completely stopped.

↑ GAMZu

Thu, Jun 19 2008, 8:30 pm

Uh, how do I go about checking it out?

Well, first I will speak with the Rebbe, to get a clearer idea of what's going on. Does he speak with the kids? Does he answer questions?
Oh, I just remembered that he read the alef bais during the individual chazara in class and today he read it when the principal was testing them. OK, not as scary as I thought. Smile

I'll still talk to his Rebbe.

↑ Seraph ↓

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 12:03 am

now I feel terrible. how was I supposed to know that this is what the girl had? It looks like what I've been doing was making it worse. I thought just by trying to encourage it to talk it would help her. I thought that by saying "I know you can do it, I heard you talk to the other kids, I even heard you say ___" would help. I thought that by getting down to her level, looking her in the eye, it would help, but I read that that makes it worse... oysh, I got a week and a half left in gan with her and its not enough time to fix my mistakes. but at least now I know what it is, I can share my insight with the mother (bec she doesnt know about this) and maybe she can get her daughter help.

↑ gryp ↓

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 9:04 am

Breslov, at least she talks to other kids. That's a good sign.
I think the easiest way to let someone know about it is by printing up material from the website and giving it to them.
I think the only thing you can do with the little time you have is boost her confidence as much as possible. Give her activities or jobs she can complete and be proud of herself for. And if you can tell the mother how important it is for her child's self-esteem to be boosted.
I do wonder how she behaves at home. When my son went through his hard parts, we had quite a time here.

↑ Seraph

Fri, Jun 20 2008, 9:11 am

I dont know how she acts at home, but I can tell you two notable things about her. In the past few days, she tore apart two books. And one thing I hear her saying a lot is "ani aharog otach"- I'll kill you. printed material is hard bec the mother is a hebrew speaker.