"too much davening, the food was bad, etc"- is there better?

amother

↑ Brickred

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 9:41 am

I think going to shul on shabbos should be optional. Maybe make it mandatory for krias hatorah or something. My dd never goes to shul aside for rosh hashana, Yom Kippur, Megillah on Purim… anything forced doesn’t really last in a long run.
When she came home from camp she felt so good that first shabbos when she was able to sleep in on shabbos morning. She davens at home on shabbos morning. Women are not mechuyav in davening with a minyan.

amother

Thistle

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 9:50 am

Is she a kvetch in general... or surrounded by friends with stinky attitudes?

there are many variables at play here. There are no better or worse camps just more or less suitable camps.

also, there was a time my girls whined about camp food until I went there as a family for a weekend (they rented short term bungalows...). The food was diiiiivine. Thats when I realized they just missed their homey comfort foods, pizza and junky fast food and its cool to say camp food is yucky.

amother

Zinnia

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 9:55 am

You're not going to find a camp with better food. It's camp, not a restaurant. And yes, part of the fun of camp is giggling late into the night with the other girls. Most of this really is "just camp". Since options at home are thin on the ground, I'd play up the parts she really liked and encourage her to give it one more go. It sounds like next year, she'll at least have the option of working in a day camp, so if sleepaway is really not her thing, she'll have what to do.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 10:30 am

She's not my most happy go lucky kid but she also isn't very kvetchy. She's generally a good sport, fun to be with, has lots of friends.

Always a little finicky about food but not to any extreme. When I had a friend going to that camp for something and asked if she wanted me to send something, she said salad. She said they didn't have good fresh vegetables and while she was OK with her cereal stash for sustenance, she was craving good fresh vegetables. Too bad that's not the kind of thing you can keep in a bunk house for long.

Anyway because she is a generally happy kid who loves doing activities with friends, that's why she does want to go back... except that the issues were real issues. If she was just a sourpuss who didn't like camp, this would be a very easy (and cheap!) resolution.

I'm going to look into camp Ahuva as per suggestions above. Never heard of it before.

amother

Green

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 10:47 am

amother Mustard wrote:

I was this kid.
My mother was a big time camp girl. So of course I had to go. I didn’t enjoy the whole camp experience. I was (still am 😝) a picky eater and a light sleeper. I didn’t like being told what to do. I prefer to do things at my own pace.

After that first summer, I didn’t want to go back. My mother wouldn’t hear of it! She made sure I got put in a good bunk. But I still didn’t like it.

Thankfully she relented. I spent the next few summers working in local day camps with a school friend. Loved it!

I went back to camp as staff, and really enjoyed! I was able to figure out my own food situation, had a small room with three others, and a job that was fun and with friends!

My advice: give it another year. But if she really doesn’t enjoy it, she may just not be cut out for camp.

I feel like I could have written this!

Not everyone enjoys camp!

amother

Firethorn ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:22 pm

Maybe sit down and have her make a pros and cons list with you. It will help her figure out if she wants to go back or not. It should be her decision, with your assistance.

Then you guys can talk about alternatives if she chooses not to go back. Maybe look into Maayan (campmaayanmidwest.com) if you’re open to an oot camp. I’m oot so it’s one I’ve heard good things about. But I don’t have personal experience with it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:28 pm

She was on the same wavelength and got on fine with the other girls.

Midwest is definitely too far for me to send a kid with homesick tendencies.

I haven't found that pro/con lists ever help with things like this. They end up feeling about even, and different items on each side have different weight that can't really be measured, and you end up in the same place: loved the kids, activities, and vibe; spent a lot of time miserable too. It's not a winning situation so I'm wondering if there is any other camp for low maintenance bais Yaakov girls that is maybe a better fit for one who needs reinforced bedtime and less onerous davening (I KNOW it needs to be mandatory, I just feel like this camp somehow utterly failed to make it a positive experience if my kid came home saying that's one of the deal breakers making her not want to go back)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:53 pm

amother Firethorn wrote:

Sorry op I had edited my post bc I realized the wavelength thing was fine. Sorry if anyone reading is confused lol

Oh I understood it because I did say that we were less yeshivish but sending to a yeshivish camp. It's hard to make that make sense to others but it's just the way we are - we live pretty yeshivish-like (low maintenence, no smartphones for kids, filters for adults, long skirts and socks, etc) without fully buying into yeshivish philosophy (boys and girls alike pursue a profession, I'm not going into other philosophical differences so as not to derail this thread)

amother

↑ Clear

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:01 pm

Now that you know about the food situation, would you be able to mitigate it next time by sending her with non-perishables? That won't take care of the fresh vegetable issue, but there are some pretty hearty shelf stable products now.

For davening, you haven't clarified how long it is, but a typical Shabbos morning davening should not be too onerous to do once a week. Unless they're making them recite an extra 45 minutes of tehillim or listen to a 75 minute drasha in addition to shacharis and mussaf.

amother

Holly

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 2:30 pm

Other than the davening, the way you describe her camp experience was similar to mine at age 14. I guess I'm not a camp "type" but I was often not feeling well, couldn't sleep with the noise and lights the counselors made, and didn't love the food. But I went back the following year because that was the thing to do. I did enjoy it more since I already knew what to expect and was better prepared.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 2:56 pm

How does knowing what to expect help you handle sleep deprivation? Just curious.

Also she said she hated Shabbos at camp. I thought Shabbos was supposed to be nice, chill, bonding, a break from the crazy running around all the time, maybe a nap... but she said all the davening and waiting for late meals (this makes sense to me - even early Shabbos starts at 7, then they wait for the men to finish davening so figure at least 8 if not later, and usually supper is probably more like 6:30) and enforced singing was just so much not her speed that she hated it. Made me sad to hear.

At this point (she talked to her friends while I vented here!) she is leaning toward going back because all the girls she likes are going back plus a few more of her school friends. So I'm going to try to get in touch with the camp nurse and/or mother to see if there's anything I can do to get the poor girl some cucumbers or something (a highlight of her summer was that one time a staff member got her a cucumber straight from the kitchen and the whole bunk was jealous so they each got a little slice. Sounds like holocaust-era Europe! WTH! I said don't they also serve that at meals? And she said the veggies at meals all already have something done to them, like cucumber salad rather than fresh cucumbers.)

IDK, are my kids super sensitive? I know there are kids who bring tradition soups to school for lunch every day and subsist on that and maybe cereal but IMO that's just not food. If a 12-year-old who was packed off to camp with a drawer full of cereals, granola bars, chips, and candy is calling home crying for vegetables...what can you do?!

amother

↑ Sienna ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 3:04 pm

It actually sounds like my first camp experience at cby. I end up going to a different camp the next time and had a different experience that I really enjoyed. I think it was too campy/sports/cheering for me and I needed a drop more comforts and structure. Every camp is great, it's just a matter of the right shidduch for each kid. My sister had loved the first camp I went to.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 3:24 pm

amother Sienna wrote:

Which was the second camp?

Simple1 ↓

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 6:49 pm

amother Sienna wrote:

I thought camp Bais Yaakov enforces bedtime.

↑ Simple1

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 7:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

IDK, are my kids super sensitive? I know there are kids who bring tradition soups to school for lunch every day and subsist on that and maybe cereal but IMO that's just not food. If a 12-year-old who was packed off to camp with a drawer full of cereals, granola bars, chips, and candy is calling home crying for vegetables...what can you do?!

I have kids who enjoy fresh vegetables but can't imagine them complaining if they had to be without them. It is normal to not like the food as much as what they get at home, but most girls feel it's worth the tradeoff to have fun summer.

ra_mom

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 7:21 pm

OP my dd missed her vegetables too at one camp. Best we could do was pop top cans of hearts of palm, baby corn, green beans, whole button mushrooms, pickles, and applesauce pouches and fruit cups.
Some camps give more veggies than others. At this particular camp mostly what they gave was lettuce smothered in mayonnaise.