Why is summer camp a must for frum families?

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:07 am

I want to say something about the history of frum summer camps in the US. I'm focusing on the girls' camps for now.

They were founded in the mid 1940's (Camp Bais Yaakov, Camp Emunah, Camp Bnos come to mind). Their clientele were the children of those who fled the Holocaust, soon followed by actual survivors.

My grandparents A"H for example - my grandmother came here alone (her mother HYD perished in the Holocaust), my grandfather came with his parents but they were elderly by the time my mother A"H was born. They both worked hard to make a living, and had no family with them that could care for her. When the summer arrived, camp was the ideal solution. Daycamps had too few hours, required transportation, didn't provide the type of care they needed. By the time my mother was 5, she was attending CBY for the full summer (one of the Rabbi Newhouse's told my DD last summer - you are literally standing where your Bubby stood, you are on the same grounds.)

They also were open to war orphans. A former neighbor of ours - an elderly woman - survived the Holocaust in England, having been sent on a kindertransport. After the war, she was brought to the US by relatives, and CBY was her summer home. She told me about being a waitress - no disposables those days. They washed the crockery 3X a day. They also had lots of fun in between. Rabbi Newhouse was like a father figure to these girls (he was given a psak to let the girls sing with him, so that they felt like home. The camp still forms a circle and sings Shalom Aleichem on Friday nights, though these days it's with the Rebbetzin Sh"Y).

As life continues, so do the camps...and they continue to fill a role. Life in the US has always been geared to working parents - it's the culture here (my grandmother AH used to tell me how hard it was for her to get used to when she got to the US and found she was expected to work - even after marriage. And though my mother AH was a SAHM, I think the US has always had a significant female work force.)

I work full time, so my girls went to daycamps in the summer. As they got older, more and more of their friends went to camp in the summer. I remember when DD was going into 7th, her good friends went, and she was so bored, in daycamp she had fun but was missing them. The next year I sent her, and going into 8th became sort of the bentchmark of when my girls started camp.

I've seen tremendous growth happen in camp. It's much more than just an expensive vacation. There's a big reason DH and I - a struggling Kollel couple - work extra and save to send our girls for half a summer (they take jobs 2nd half and contribute to costs).

↑ imaima ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:08 am

Miri1 wrote:

It certainly contributes because it helps explain why Americans feel the need for summer camp while the Brits don't feel the same need.

edited to add: I don't think the public schools have a longer vacation than the heimish schools (unless something has changed), but I DO think it makes sense to observe how other countries handle summer vacation (in this case it seems to be handles better and in a less costly manner), and try to learn from them!!

I tried to stretch my imagination to connect teachers‘s salary for 52 weeks to sleep away camp, and failed. So I asked for an explanation.

No you cannot learn from the other countries if the rest of the legislation doesn’t match.
US is still a country that doesn’t really support working mothers. You have to change many many things besides for the summer vacation to really change smth.
I live in a country with a shorter summer vacation. People do:
A) send to daycamps/ sleepaway camps;
B) send kids to grandparents or relatives;
C) send them to art camps or sport camps;
D) have way more vacation days a year than in the US, so they actually take these days off to watch their kids or travel;
E) it is still a struggle. Some mothers still don’t work because it’s not worth it.

This is general population, not frum.

State schools have subsidized daycamp options for at least part of the day.

Whoever asked why daycamp stops at 12: because it is the age when kids know how to fend for themselves. So they don’t NEED supervision all day long. They can actually stay at home all day long.

Last edited by imaima on Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Miri1 ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:08 am

Chayalle wrote:

We can't "learn" from them when the culture in our country is so signficantly different, and it's not in our power to change it.

The question was WHY is summer camp a must for frum families.
And I think looking over at our friends across the pond should really give much of the answer to that question!

Small changes do make a difference too. Shaving a week or two off of the vacation wouldn't hurt, and there is room for that. Last year many schools changed the dates for the start of school due to early Y"T.
You may not think that you personally have the "power" to change it, but overall awareness of the benefits DO make for easier transitions Smile

(Although I suspect that a two week winter break British style would be met with a good deal of resistance Smile

↑ imaima ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:13 am

Miri1 wrote:

(Although I suspect that a two week winter break British style would be met with a good deal of resistance Smile

But that’s only if you think that camp is bad. But people don’t think so.

↑ Miri1 ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:14 am

Chayalle wrote:

You make excellent points, and Im definitely not against camp and all it has to offer, in theory.
But I do think there is an overemphasis on camp.
I \think that summer vacation in the US is too long, and camp doesn't need to stretch for two whole months.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:17 am

Miri1 wrote:

(Although I suspect that a two week winter break British style would be met with a good deal of resistance Smile

There's a mandatory number of days that schools have to be open each year in the US (legal). So when they start early, they are also figuring out that number of days, and it factors into the vacation schedule, Isru Chag, etc...and when school ends.

About 52 weeks tuition to those who posted about that - the tuition is an annual rate. Most people choose to pay it in 10 months (and by now most schools want it paid that way) but technically it's the same annual rate, and not a per-month rate. Same for teacher's pay, and I know some who take off in the summer and opt for a 12-month pay schedule.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:22 am

Miri1 wrote:

Most people I know go to camp for 4 weeks (and work the other half).
It's available for 8 weeks, but I hardly know anyone who goes for 8 weeks these days.

My sister's DD - now a mother herself - did, because her mother is a doctor and worked long hours, they could afford it, and they lived a little far out in her community (not the case these days, but was back then) and the daycamps did not have transportation available to her area. So camp it was for the full summer.

I actually can't think of anyone else who goes for the full two months, and the availability of it in my mind is really just to provide more girls the opportunity to come one of those halves. Though I've heard that in the city (NY) more girls go the whole summer - it's more of a culture. I also have heard of children who go for the full summer where there is a family situation that necessitates it (like RL where there is only one parent....)

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:25 am

Miri1 wrote:

I don't think camp is bad at all.
I just think there's a bit too much of it, and the expense is a burden on parents who feel they must send their kids to two months of camp.
And I understand why they feel this given the very many weeks their kids are out of school during the summer.

I don't think many parents feel that way. And in fact my older girls found 4 weeks quite sufficient - they loved it but also were ready to come home (dorm life is great up to a point! And they missed my cooking!)

My youngest would totally go for the full 8 weeks, but it's out of my budget, and I feel no pressure when I frankly say so (as hardly anyone else goes for the full summer).

jkl

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:32 am

The issue with this and with everything else is that altogether it has created an unsustainable lifestyle for us. Camp has pros, as well as all other stuff we do. So we can cherry pick one item from our lifestyle and debate the pros and cons of it but will get nowhere.

When just focusing on one topic with blinders on as to how it coincides with all other yiddishe lifestyle needs, you literally go on circles. It is understandable that things were implemented because it offered benefits for us. But times have changed, and along with that the demand and cost of the yiddishe lifestyle have changed with it. What we need is discussion around how to implement changes that will make yiddishe life sustainable for the average person.

Yes, camp is wonderful. It offers benefits for our children and babysitting for working parents. But what is the consideration for camp expenses in conjunction with all other lifestyle expenses I.e. private tuition, large families, kollel lifestyle, marrying off kids, supporting kids, making YT, and other jewish expenses?

Is there a way we can make it all work for the average family?

↑ shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:33 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

All of Chanukka? Didn't they shorten it during COVID by a day or two?
We shouldn't forget Tu Bishvat and Taanit ester. Not to mention Isruchag which NOBODY really understands why kids must be off on that day too!

Sorry, I meant 7 out of the 8 days of chanukah, its been like that as long as I remember, nothing to do with covid.
Tu biShvat? There is no day off for that.
And Yes, taanit Esther, the day after lag baomer and, and, and. The system is different (and also broken) here as well.
And dont evenget me started on isru chag. Its like we all made aliyah to have one day of chag. But no, that day is off and makes a mess for working parents as well.

↑ keym

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:34 am

Daycamps rent space from schools and defray costs.
Teachers work either pt or ft in both daycamps and sleep away camps and add significantly to their salaries.
Both things are definitely kept in mind when schools set tuition and salary.
This is across the board, whether tuition is 4k, 14k or 24k.
At the end of the day, shaving summer vacation will force tuition even higher.
I don't know how parents do it in the UK.
But in the US, parents average 10-15 vacation days that usually have to be used for Yom Tov.
This year alone Rosh Hashanah, Sukkos and Shmini Atzeres are all Mon and Tues and Yom Kippur is Wednesday. Which means 7 days. 1 day for Shavuos and 2 for Pesach already brings to 10. That doesn't include Erev Yom Tov.
Most families can't afford to take 2 weeks holiday in the summer and another 2 weeks in the winter.

↑ Miri1 ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:34 am

Chayalle wrote:

OK, I hear you.
I'm just not into long summer vacation, even if you only send your kid for one month. So perhaps my arguments belong on a spin off that is coming to discuss summer vacations in general, and camp might be a part of that conversation.
However I do think the answer to the title question lies in the length of vacation. I mean what else are working parents to do for all those weeks?!
Or perhaps I misunderstood the thrust of the question.

↑ Miri1 ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:36 am

Chayalle wrote:

Okay, then for one month of camp for each child.
That too is a real burden.

And the pressure to send for ONE month is also in large part due to the TEN weeks that many of our kids will be out of school over the summer.
Mesivta boys have it much better in my opinion.
As do the Brits Smile

↑ Chayalle ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 10:44 am

Miri1 wrote:

Okay, then for one month of camp for each child.
That too is a real burden.

It most definitely isn't easy to afford, and for some people, it is not a reality. Not everyone goes to camp. And among those who don't go, there are some who don't want to (believe it or not. I remember DD had a friend who WOULDN'T go to camp, her parents wanted to and could afford to send her and she wanted to stay home) and there are those who wish they could, and I'm sure there are those who feel pressure. Like many things in life.

There are some options for those who can't afford - for example, mother's helpers to camp staff. I have a relative who worked in a boy's camp, and they don't allow girls over 12 to be in camp for the summer. His DD went to camp for the full summer, and they gave them a significant discount, but she had to babysit for one of the camp directors for a few hours a day (I think 2-3 hours, it was a job shared with other girls and not too difficult. Plenty of time for fun, and she got to participate in the bulk of camp activities).

↑ imaima ↓

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 11:06 am

Chayalle wrote:

Yes so we also pay both tuition and camp in the summer. It is what it is.
I don’t see why it is relevant.
The question is why so many people send to sleepaway so it becomes a must. Someone above said: it’s a part of the lifestyle where you already both work to cover expenses. And that’s the majority. Even if someone is a SAHM who wants to save money in the summer, it’s tough because teens need friends and the majority of friends are in camp.

↑ Miri1

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 11:15 am

OOT wrote:

Why is sleep away camp a “must?”
Because it gives kids valuable experiences and relationships that often last a lifetime.
Some kids can only survive the other ten months of the year because they have camp in the summer.
Maybe the question should be why school is a must lol.

This answer shows me there are two ways to read the title question.

The above quoted is an answer to "why is camp so important to a child's upbringing?".

Another way to read the question is "why do parents feel pressured to send their kids to camp each year?".

This explains some of the ways people have responded (and the responses to their responses).
I had a feeling that in our discussion there were two different readings of the question.

↑ Chayalle

Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:31 pm

imaima wrote:

I think historically it was a must for some (because of work, no extended family - like I posted upthread about the history) but I don't think that's as prevalent anymore today. There are much more daycamps catering to the working crowd. And most girls aren't going at the age that they need babysitting - they are going at an older age, when they could amuse themselves or get a job.

So you either send because you view it as a chinuch benefit, or because you are pressured (your teens friends are going.)

The truth is - amusing oneself is much more of an issue now - most of us want our kids in some sort of framework. The world being what it is. And working for 8 weeks is a burden for many teens. So they go to camp half the summer.....

My 14 year old will be an assistant in a 3-year-old daycamp for 4 weeks. She wouldn't enjoy doing that for 8 weeks. And I wouldn't want her without structure for so long, either.