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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Summer Camps
rimon613
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 Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:07 am
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Why do all frum families send their kids to summer camp? Why has it becomes something that all frum families must do?
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shabbatiscoming
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:08 am
Editing my response as I read the OP wrong. Many people, not just frum jews, send their kids to camp. If parents work, what other alternative is there? Day camp is very popular all around, not just in the frum world
Last edited by shabbatiscoming on Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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champion
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:14 am
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Because they don't have the ability to be 'on duty' for 2 full months.
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imaima
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:51 am
I assume since tuition is high, both parents hve to work. Ergo in the summer they need fulltime supervision and/pr occupation for their children.
If one parent stayed at home, then they wouldn’t have been able to afford schooling the rest of the year.
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shabbatiscoming
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 12:56 am
| rimon613 wrote: | | Why do all frum families send their kids to summer camp? Why has it becomes something that all frum families must do? | And another question, if the kids are not in camp what are they doing all day?
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teachkids
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 2:47 am
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I was not a camp kid. I hated it. But I had to go until I was old enough to work in the summers because my parents worked full time and leaving a kid home alone all summer was not an option (especially since parking me in front of the tv all summer was clearly not an option)
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Ruchi
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 3:34 am
In the UK the heimishe schools only have 5 weeks vacation.
Sleep away Camp is only for 2 weeks and most girls don't go.
Day camp is generally for younger ones. There is one day camp that offers a program for girls from age 11 to approx 14.
Families also generally go away for two weeks. Some may go for a week or 10 days too.
The Chedorim only have a 3 week vacation.
All in all, the system in the UK is more manageable and not as costly.
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imaima
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 3:54 am
| Ruchi wrote: | In the UK the heimishe schools only have 5 weeks vacation.
Sleep away Camp is only for 2 weeks and most girls don't go.
Day camp is generally for younger ones. There is one day camp that offers a program for girls from age 11 to approx 14.
Families also generally go away for two weeks. Some may go for a week or 10 days too.
The Chedorim only have a 3 week vacation.
All in all, the system in the UK is more manageable and not as costly.
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I hope you realize that that has mostly to do with country-specific conditions: length of summer vacation, paid vacation days for parents, tuition subsidized by state or not etc
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Elfrida
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 3:57 am
Because children are not taught to be independent or to entertain themselves, and parents are unwilling and unable to take in the role of entertainer for the entire summer.
In England going to camp was never a thing, and the more I hear about American camps the more I am relieved that I never had to endure that. I think I would have hated it.
But from the age of eleven I was travelling across London on public transport to get to school. So naturally when there wasn't school I was free to use public transport to explore London as much as I wanted. Without ever being parked in front of a television, I could go to museums, art galleries (not that I ever did), libraries, and explore historic London. When we could afford it, we sometimes went to tourist sites. I could make plans with a friend, or go by myself. My parents wanted to know where I would be going, and I had to be back by a reasonable time, or phone from a phone box if there was any serious delay. Mostly I had to fund it myself.
An outing was not limited to going to the park or the mall. Without being able to count on kosher food being readily available, we took sandwiches and bought fruit. With one or two days out a week, I was quite happy to stay around the house, read, go to the pool or whatever else the rest of the time.
Partly the world is less safe than it was, and partly parenting style has become much more protective. And partly - even in the frum world - there is more dependence on electronics. In combination it means that children are very limited in what they are able to do. When parents are not able to become full time entertainers, and there are a lot of reasons why this is impractical for most parents, something else needs to be in place to occupy the children. That something has become camp. By now it has become so ingrained that it's hard to manage without it.
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yidishmamma
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 3:58 am
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In Brooklyn where I live it. Comes a certain age where there is no more daycamp for boys so I must send them. As for girls I dont know why but dd is going for half summer to camp. She started last year in 7th grade. Was her choice and she loved it bh . We dont go upstate and It. Can get boring for the older kids in the city
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Ruchi
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 4:28 am
| imaima wrote: | | I hope you realize that that has mostly to do with country-specific conditions: length of summer vacation, paid vacation days for parents, tuition subsidized by state or not etc |
School teachers and Melamdim are fully paid for vacation. It's a 52 week per year wage.
And these heimishe school's are not subsidised by the state, except for one high school.
Office workers also can take off a week or two annual leave depending.
Some offices rotate the workers so each worker can get off during summer vacation.
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Chayalle
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:03 am
| Elfrida wrote: | Because children are not taught to be independent or to entertain themselves, and parents are unwilling and unable to take in the role of entertainer for the entire summer.
In England going to camp was never a thing, and the more I hear about American camps the more I am relieved that I never had to endure that. I think I would have hated it.
But from the age of eleven I was travelling across London on public transport to get to school. So naturally when there wasn't school I was free to use public transport to explore London as much as I wanted. Without ever being parked in front of a television, I could go to museums, art galleries (not that I ever did), libraries, and explore historic London. When we could afford it, we sometimes went to tourist sites. I could make plans with a friend, or go by myself. My parents wanted to know where I would be going, and I had to be back by a reasonable time, or phone from a phone box if there was any serious delay. Mostly I had to fund it myself.
An outing was not limited to going to the park or the mall. Without being able to count on kosher food being readily available, we took sandwiches and bought fruit. With one or two days out a week, I was quite happy to stay around the house, read, go to the pool or whatever else the rest of the time.
Partly the world is less safe than it was, and partly parenting style has become much more protective. And partly - even in the frum world - there is more dependence on electronics. In combination it means that children are very limited in what they are able to do. When parents are not able to become full time entertainers, and there are a lot of reasons why this is impractical for most parents, something else needs to be in place to occupy the children. That something has become camp. By now it has become so ingrained that it's hard to manage without it. |
Because in the US, many towns/cities do not have the infrastructure that London has, that enabled you to develop that independant lifestyle and go to places on your own. None of the cities I have lived in in the US have that.
At the age of 15 as a foreign visitor to the UK, I took my 5 younger cousins (giving my two aunts a break) to a fun attraction for the day. We packed sandwiches and snacks, and took the train by ourselves, switched to a bus, etc....went and had a great time, and came home safely. I was perfectly capable of navigating the transportation system in England. No such system exists in the city I grew up in. So it has nothing to do with the parenting style, and everything to do with the infrastructure.
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lamplighter
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:16 am
You will not get the responses you want be cause you posted in a section that doesn't have anon posting.
Start your thread in another section and you will see how many have answers to this.....
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keym
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:37 am
Summers are 10 weeks long. That's a very very long time for no structure.
12 and under, if parents are working (to cover tuition) them they must be occupied in daycamp. There's a reason that in the US daycamp under 12 is counted toward childcare deduction.
Over 12/13, many girls do get jobs working in daycamps for half the summer. But it's exhausting and girls do need to refresh.
In my world many girls go to camp half the summer and work the other half and still have 2 weeks to hang out and be bored.
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MiracleMama
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:41 am
| rimon613 wrote: | | Why do all frum families send their kids to summer camp? Why has it becomes something that all frum families must do? |
If both parents work, what are the kids going to do all day? Be couch potatoes?
And I can tell you that in my experience as a SAHM who tried to do a summer of "mommy camp", it was no great money saver. Maybe there are other mothers who can be more resourceful and creative - and of course age makes a difference too. I spent a ton on all the kids activities. Saved very little money, I was exhausted all the time, and kids missed out on being with friends. Not much of a win.
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imaima
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:45 am
| MiracleMama wrote: | If both parents work, what are the kids going to do all day? Be couch potatoes?
And I can tell you that in my experience as a SAHM who tried to do a summer of "mommy camp", it was no great money saver. Maybe there are other mothers who can be more resourceful and creative - and of course age makes a difference too. I spent a ton on all the kids activities. Saved very little money, I was exhausted all the time, and kids missed out on being with friends. Not much of a win. |
This
I did it a few times. Took my kids to the pool and outings to new things all the time.
In the end they were still lacking individual time with me terribly even though I was spending my all time with them!
I was exhausted and still ended up taking them on individual dates.
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Ruchi
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:55 am
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Why don't they shorten the summer vacation and instead give a 2 week winter vacation?
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imaima
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 6:59 am
| Ruchi wrote: | School teachers and Melamdim are fully paid for vacation. It's a 52 week per year wage.
And these heimishe school's are not subsidised by the state, except for one high school.
Office workers also can take off a week or two annual leave depending.
Some offices rotate the workers so each worker can get off during summer vacation. |
Yes
I think it is different in US
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keym
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 7:01 am
| Ruchi wrote: | | Why don't they shorten the summer vacation and instead give a 2 week winter vacation? |
Who's they?
Lakewood public school is also 10 weeks vacation (unless they do summer school).
Boys schools in Lakewood mostly have 5-6 weeks off. The first 3 weeks, they'll have Rebbi in the morning and swimming, sports, crafts, trips in the afternoon.
And Mesivtas only have 1 month off.
But changing the summer vacation drastically is a huge decision and not likely to happen. Especially since it will mean raising tuition for everyone, even those who don't do camp
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Ruchi
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Thu, Jun 09 2022, 7:19 am
| keym wrote: | Who's they?
Lakewood public school is also 10 weeks vacation (unless they do summer school).
Boys schools in Lakewood mostly have 5-6 weeks off. The first 3 weeks, they'll have Rebbi in the morning and swimming, sports, crafts, trips in the afternoon.
And Mesivtas only have 1 month off.
But changing the summer vacation drastically is a huge decision and not likely to happen. Especially since it will mean raising tuition for everyone, even those who don't do camp |
The public schools in the UK have a much longer summer vacation than the heimishe mosdos.
We pay tuition 52 weeks a year regardless. Same goes for the school / Cheder transportation.
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