Black hat open minded not quite yeshivish with dog brooklyn

amother

Bronze

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 2:54 am

Quote:

It's not an issue here

I also live in Israel and while I understand rbs is unique I understand people have been told that it's lo matim for their desired schools there. It depends where you are.

Where I live, for charedim, it's considered so strange that there is no rule against it because it "goes without saying" that you won't. I have two (Anglo) friends who got dogs anyway, feeling that it was so important for their kids. They've have had stern talking tos from the schools about it being inappropriate and veiled unsubstantiated threats about not belonging in the school. But they got the dogs once the kids were already accepted.

I personally would love a dog, but don't want to be so different for my children's sake. Maybe when they are older.

If I have friends who did it anyway and are happy with their decision in EY, I see no reason why most people couldn't make it work in the US, even in lakewood, if they really want.

amother

↑ Taupe ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 6:45 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I'm gonna start w I love dogs and always wanted one.
It is just not socially acceptable in Lakewood. So unless you're the type to do things that are considered not socially acceptable - and of course there are people like that in every group - dont get a dog in Lakewood. You will stand out. If you are comfortable standing out like that, go for it.
I live in Baltimore and there are TONS of black hatters w dogs. Considered very normal here.

So it's not socially acceptable, and then what? Do you think they lose their friends? Do you think their neighbors will shun them? Their families will disown them?

I haven't seen any such repercussions for the Lakewood families I know who got dogs. They may get a few stupid comments from people, but the people who say stupid things will always find something stupid to say.

amother

↑ Vermilion

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 6:52 am

DrMom wrote:

Why are those other animals okay but dogs not?

Are people just afraid of being bitten or attacked by dogs? Or is there some other issue?

There are hashkafic reasons (obviously not in all circles), but I'm not well versed enough to explain well and I don't want to get bitten by imamother watchdogs.

As for the other issue you raise, not sure about everyone else, but most of my kids are afraid of most dogs (not cute little pups), but they like other furry animals such as bunnies and cute kittens.

amother

↑ Cerulean ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 6:53 am

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

Repercussions like the school making them get rid of it.. yes

FranticFrummie ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 6:53 am

It's funny, because when I lived in the US my OOT Yeshivish rabbi told me that I shouldn't bring my dogs with me when I made Aliyah. He said that I wouldn't have any friends, DD's friends wouldn't be allowed to come over, and that no one would eat by us.

It turned out to be the complete opposite!

In Beit Shemesh Aleph, a big Shabbos activity was to take your dog down to the Ayalon park, to socialize with all the other dogs. My dog is very gentle, and I'm always having Chassidish families coming over to introduce their kids so that the kids won't grow up scared, or being mean to pets. They wouldn't dream of owning a pet for themselves, but I loved that they wanted to educate their kids, so I never minded stopping for them as long as the wanted to pet her.

That said, if someone's body language looks nervous, I am always careful to steer very clear of them, and let the other person come closer if they want to. You have to be respectful of human feelings first.

My motto is "People before pets."

↑ FranticFrummie ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 7:05 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Quote:

It's not an issue here

I also live in Israel and while I understand rbs is unique I understand people have been told that it's lo matim for their desired schools there. It depends where you are.

It depends on the community. When I lived in Nahariya everyone had dogs. DD went to a very strict school in Ma'alot, and nobody cared about pets. Maybe because there were several Anglo families there.

In Bnai Brak or Beitar, I can see it being a real problem. On yishuvim, most dogs are for protection, but also pets.

I heard a dvar Torah once about dogs. It's said that "It is assur to own a bad dog." Because no words of Torah are wasted, we can derive from this that the main word here is "bad". Therefore, it is not assur to own a "good dog".

This can be compared to the sotah. We derive from the passage that a woman must cover her hair and keep it neat, because the hair of the sotah was uncovered and messed up.

Furthermore, you can learn loyalty from a dog, and teach your children about responsibility and compassion.

doodlesmom

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 10:13 am

My bil has a dog, and my sil (not mainstream) in Toms River is alway dogsitting.

Know that if you live in an area where dogs aren’t the norm, then neighborhood kids, (and their parents) might be uncomfortable around it or even scared.

amother

Bisque ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 10:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Are you a black hat family, leaning towards yeshivish but more open minded, that owns a dog in brooklyn? We would like a dog but no one else seems to have one.

You just described us! Where do u live? We are in the East 30’s and we’re not the only ones who have a dog! Get one, you’ll see how many people express how they’d love to as well.

amother

↑ Babyblue ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:06 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

I heard a dvar Torah once about dogs. It's said that "It is assur to own a bad dog." Because no words of Torah are wasted, we can derive from this that the main word here is "bad". Therefore, it is not assur to own a "good dog". .

Whoever shared this with you must have been confused... The Torah does not say anything explicit about owning a dog, good or bad. The shulchan aruch and other sources are the ones that discuss an evil dog vs a non evil dog. No need to derive anything, they are clear is stating that it's not assur to own a good dog.

moonstone

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:12 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

There are hashkafic reasons (obviously not in all circles), but I'm not well versed enough to explain well and I don't want to get bitten by imamother watchdogs.
.

Some rabbis probably just didn't like dogs or were afraid of them, and by banning them made their own lives easier. They no longer had to worry about encountering any dogs in their own neighborhoods.

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:19 am

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

grew up and live OOT. it is really not accepted and considered out of the box, so I imagine even more so in town. I would definately not visit you if you had a dog, as I am frightened from them, and I think many others feel the same way, so keep that in mind. also got to talk to LOR- lots of halachic things to know about owning a dog and shabbos etc. dont know specifics because it never applied to me, but I know it exists.

Dog owners only have to know as far as Shabbos not to hold the leash loose, that it should be held taught. No other halachic problems re, Shabbos and it’s not muktzeh to the owners either like people like to naively say

amother

↑ Babyblue ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:19 am

moonstone wrote:

Some rabbis probably just didn't like dogs or were afraid of them, and by banning them made their own lives easier. They no longer had to worry about encountering any dogs in their own neighborhoods.

Of course! Also, the whole reason we can't eat cheeseburgers is because it made a rabbi nauseous so he decided to wield his power and outlaw it for everyone.

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:20 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

Chassidim walking dogs? Color me skeptical.

There’s a chassidish young married man in my neighborhood with 2 big dogs, he wears shtreimel and bekeshe.

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:21 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

What kind of Rav would make you get rid of your pet? That's HORRIBLE.

And who would give up their beloved family pet

amother

↑ Babyblue ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:23 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

This is definitely not the case. First, there are major poskim who hold that it's muktzeh. They are not naive, it's a valid halachic ruling. Second, there is a lot more to know: what to do when the animal is sick or hurt on shabbos, what you're allowed to remove from their fur, how to handle poop in various locations. Definitely anyone who is caring for a dog on shabbos should discuss all of the above with their posek.

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:24 am

doodlesmom wrote:

Or love it and always want to come play like by us

amother

Forestgreen

Tue, Nov 03 2020, 11:34 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

There’s a chassidish young married man in my neighborhood with 2 big dogs, he wears shtreimel and bekeshe.

I know someone like this as well, unless we’re thinking of the same person.
They don’t send their kids to chasidish schools or yeshivas.
They have in the past - I don’t know if they owned these dogs at that time.