What is chassidish life like?

↑ louche ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 11:17 am

momtomor wrote:

If you just go shopping there, why is there even a need to want to fit in? I don't dress up to look like the other women in a community when I'm only visiting there. Why is that such a big issue?

Perhaps because if you look like a "foreigner" you may be treated...how shall I put this gently...with somewhat less cordiality than the locals? Perhaps not deliberately, perhaps completely unconsciously, perhaps only by a minority of businesses. But it's there, it's palpable, and it hurts. It's only natural for a woman to want to avert an unpleasant experience by taking on "protective coloration". And, in any case, some people LIKE looking like everyone else around them.

Unfortunately for those who seek protective coloration, no one will mistake you for a native even if you do wear a suit. Something always gives you away--and it can be as subtle as the way your pronounce your R's and L's, the style of your sheitel, or the cut of your suit. This is exactly the same kind of radar that lets you know that the guy at your friend's son's bar mitzvah isn't frum because of the way his yarmulka sits on his head.

↑ Maya ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 11:27 am

Quote:

I actually find the opposite. Storekeepers are nicer to out-of-towners than to the natives. And I've seen it many times.

And the second part of your post is true too. But I didn't want to disappoint Fox by telling her that everyone knows she's a "foreigner" even though she wears a suit.

↑ Beauty and the Beast ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 11:44 am

I never even posted a reply to the OP original question. what is our life like?
its UNBELIEVABLE!!
our life has warmth, love, and taam.
we speak to our husbands way more that just beyond how was your day. my dh is my best friend, my partner in life.
we lead our lives in a hadracha that we saw by our parents, and observe beautiful minhagim because of it.
I am sure that wether u are litvish or chassidish, u have minhagim and live your life the way u were brought up, but since the question was directed to chassidim, this is my answer.

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 12:10 pm

I don't know if this fits in here .. (just thought of it since fox said she wears a suit in willi)

WHEN IN ROME..... (this doesn't apply to fox and her suit lol)

A friend of mine doesn't wear socks during the summer. She told met hat her BP MIL doesn't like the fact that she comes to her house like that. Her MIL obviously is more tzniusdik since she wears socks allthe time.
The advice I gave my friend was: When in rome....
it's her MIL's house and if there are certain rules you gotta follow em!

↑ Fox ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 1:46 pm

momtomor wrote:

I'm sure that noone mistakes you for a Williamsburg native just because you are wearing a suit.

If you just go shopping there, why is there even a need to want to fit in? I don't dress up to look like the other women in a community when I'm only visiting there. Why is that such a big issue?

Even if they *did* mistake me for a "native", their error would be obvious when I opened my mouth: that's why I put it the line about the Midwestern accent.

I am not advocating that people try to "pass" as something they're not. But some people are more sensitive to "standing out" than others -- ergo, complaints about staring, etc. If you are, then you may prefer to select your outfit with the norms of the community in mind. If you don't care, then you probably won't be bothered by the occasional stare. BTW, as long as you're not compulsive about fitting in *or* needlessly defiant, I think both attitudes are just fine.

My point is that we should acknowledge these differences, emphasize that, aside from tznius, there is no "right" way to dress, and provide each other with enough information to make choices based on our own personalities.

Fact #1: I don't especially like standing out more than necessary. Fact #2: Women in BP and Williamsburg tend to dress more formally on the street than in my community. Fact #3: I own clothes consistent with BP/Williamsburg *and* I own clothes consistent with my own community. Conclusion: When I visit BP/Williamsburg, I prefer to wear something more consistent with their practices. Outcome: Anyone who talks with me or takes time to analyze my outfit knows I'm "not from the neighborhood". But I blend in enough that most people go about their own business and don't really notice me, and that's what I'm aiming for.

Again, this only goes so far: If Mama Bear tells me that everyone in Williamsburg is now wearing three-armed sweaters, I'd probably risk being noticed more. But when it's just a matter of wearing Outfit A or wearing Outfit B, I'm very happy when someone gives me the heads-up about what's considered appropriate in various places. It allows *me* to make the choice about how much/little I want to blend in -- rather than just blundering ahead through ignorance.

↑ louche ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 2:05 pm

Fox wrote:

Fact #1: I don't especially like standing out more than necessary. ...when it's just a matter of wearing Outfit A or wearing Outfit B, I'm very happy when someone gives me the heads-up about what's considered appropriate in various places. .

No different from calling up your friend and asking if you'd be out of place in a ballgown at her son's BM, or if a dressy suit would be more appropriate.

Observe that in both cases, tznius is not an issue--wanting to fit in is.

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Dec 28 2007, 3:22 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Hey fox:) In the winter, williamsburg women generally wear coats over their robes Very Happy

but when eating in cafe au lee they will wear a sweater & skirt or something. Suits are for the spring! But thanks for trying to hard Smile

I live in Williamsburg and don't wear a suit in the spring or a robe with a coat in the winter. I wear skirts and tops in the winter with a jacket and skirts and tops in the spring and summer.
It's not like we're all dressed the same. As someone already mentioned there are all types in Williamsburg. I wear a shaitel, my next door neighbor wears a shaitel and a band. My other neighbor across the hall wears a shpitzel. Get the drift?

↑ creativemommyto3 ↓

Sat, Dec 29 2007, 1:42 pm

Beauty and the Beast wrote:

I was brought up MO and went to litvish schools that had a big mix of girls. I think that I am just fascinated by all walks of frum jewishness . I have a thing for chassidim b/c of the way I saw the chassidishe ladies that I have met see their role in life and how they treated me. It was nothing like the stereotypes that I heard about! Not to mention the fact that my mother's father a''H was chassidish and I found him to be quite a special person . I started this thread b/c since leaving kensington/boro park I haven't had a chance really to get to know any chassidish ladies. Although, I just made friends with one from work who I will iy''H be meeting on Tuesday!

I have yet to understand why there are such problems between the chassidish and litvish etc.

klotzkashe

Sat, Dec 29 2007, 4:58 pm

I live in aussie and I sent my son to a vizhnitzer lady's creche at her house. what struck me the most was how she has been brought up with one mission in life - to be a good mom and she does it so well. she has 5 kids under 6, her house is alwyas really clean and seh has no desire to leave her house for work. in fact id on't even know if she leaves it that often at all!
she's so creative and fun, has a eautiful voice and so she uses all that in her creche (which 2 of her children attend). it's amazing to see. she's great!

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Dec 29 2007, 7:39 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

I'm seriously doubting this statement. Nobody moves here from free will. The only people living here are the ones who grew up here. Very few are from out of town, or even BP. Williamsburg is not Lubavitch; they don't welcome outsiders with open arms. On the contrary.

What a nice post about your very own community Rolling Eyes

. You are right that they might not be as opened arms as Lubavitch (which community is?) but you didn't have to write "on the contrary". Maybe you don't know about lots of Chessed in "your" community but I do. By the way for starters, Satmar Bikur Cholim moslty caters to non-frum yidden.

If you reread my post, you will see that I didnt' say our community doesn't do chessed. Of course they do; in fact, it's very big here.

But they don't welcome outsiders very well. Nothing wrong with that. To quote you "which community does".

↑ mimivan ↓

Sat, Dec 29 2007, 7:54 pm

creativemommyto3 wrote:

Beauty and the Beast wrote:

Creativemommy:
I might be wrong, but I believe the main conflict is between litvish and Chabad...I don't believe there is such a big conflict between litvish and the rest of the chasseedish world (anyone correct me if I"m wrong...It was just my impression)..

For instance, do other chassidim refer to Litvaks as "Mishnagdim"? ( a term they actually used to describe themselves when the chassidish movement, particulary Chabad, began).

I think it really became fierce with the publication of the Tanya and has been raging on with some relatively calm periods ever since.