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amother
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 Tue, Dec 25 2007, 7:35 pm
| momtomor wrote: | | I am always stared at in the street, and my neighbor's kids are always talking in Yiddish debating whether I am a [gentile]'te or not. |
Why - how do you dress?
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amother
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Wed, Dec 26 2007, 11:14 pm
I am curious about something. Please be moichel me if I ask this the wrong way. I truly only want to understand and I hope I am not offending anyone.
If a person's Rebbe is found to have done something wrong, how does his community handle the situation?
I am litvish, so I think if my Rav chas v'shalom were found to have done something wrong, I would be shocked, but I would just find a new Rav to ask my sheilos to. I think it's different in the chassidishe velt, though.
Would the Rebbe keep his position?
Also, since the Rebbe is considered to have a closer connection to Hashem than regular people, would people's perspectives on him change? Would they still see him as holy, and go to him for brachos?
Again, I hope I am not saying the wrong thing. Mods, please delete if this is inappropriate. Thanks.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 12:40 am
[quote="creativemommyto3"] | rachel19977 wrote: | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question.
Also, how come when one goes into a community like Monsey, why do you have to get stared out and play war with the chassidish men driving? My parents & sister (they are litvish) live in Monsey and I've been there plenty to see.
How come when you take a walk on a nice Shabbes afternoon do some of you let your children play outside and throw balls at people, curse, downtalk, and not answer 'Gut Shabbes' as the custom is there? Just because I'm not dressed with beige stockings and wearing a robe/snood/wig w/ a hat like you? Just because my child isn't complety shaved bald and has curly paoyes like your child? Or perhaps when before I was married, how come your child called me a shikse? Because my hair wasn't in a ponytail and cut shorter then my shoulders? Because I wasn't dressed the way you were?
I've had plenty of horrible experiances at Lakewood and Monsey and Boro Park. I've been tought in the school I went to, a certain Chassidish one in Boro Park, that "We are better then everyone else and treat everyone that isn't like you in a lesser way."
Why? Isn't ALL JEWS the same? How come isn't anyone accepting of another 'religioun style'? How come two chassidish worlds feud? How come isn't anyone teaching their child to be accepting of someone else even if they aren't dressed? We are still jewish.
DO you know how many people went off the derech because of certain people's behaviour? How come Chabbad is the only leading 'chassidus' that accepts any jew, even not religous and has the power of bringing a person back? Why can't everyone do it? The reason why Mosiach isn't here yet is becuase of hateward towards one another and the fellow jew. Think about it.
Why aren't people teaching their children how to behave and be accepting? Simple words from a babe's mouth can do wonders.... Bring a person back or turn him.... And I do have loads of stories about this, but I'll stop now. |
First of all I find it hard to believe that chassidishe kids cursed at you. Seocnd of all kids will be kids will be kids. They simply have limited understanding.
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momsrus
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 12:57 am
| Mama Bear wrote: | arita it is nice for a change to see someone writing and thinking positively of chasidim, as opposed to so many non chasidim constnatly seeking to bash us.  thanks.
I dont have time to respond to your entire post because I have to go whip up some of my yummilicious cooking  . but for now, the majority of men work, yes. There are those who stay in kollel for a while, but there is none of this Lakewood-type stuff where a family is supported or the wife works all her life while the husband learns. Yes, there are some choshuva talmidei chachamin who do learn, wives work - but they are not the norm, commen everyday.
I'll write some more later iyh when I finish cooking  . |
I beg to differ with you here. Why would u say that chassidishe men don't learn and their wives don't work? That is totally not true. There are plenty of ft learning men in our community. And as for lakewood all major chassidisus have a shtebel there, there are plenty of cassidim there.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 1:34 am
| Quote: | | Is it because makeup isnt allowed so one accessorizes another way? Is any makeup allowed? |
OH C'mon, of course they wear make-up. If someone doesn't wear make-up in public it's a personal choice and very nice but it's not something that a whole community has undertaken. Most Chassidishe people wear make-up and you'll find heavily madeup women in Kiryas Yoes, Skvere (and certainly in Williamsburg where the women look more up to date than in the KY or Skver Shtetl).
To your question of expensive clothing and Jewelry in Williamsburg. I've had this question as well and I've been answered that because most Chassidim from Williamsburg originally are from Hungary, where the Hungarian people always liked to have the nicest and the best, it was passed down to their children and grandchildren who happen to live in Williamsburg. It's like a Hungarian minhag lol.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 2:03 am
| Quote: | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question.
Also, how come when one goes into a community like Monsey, why do you have to get stared out and play war with the chassidish men driving? My parents & sister (they are litvish) live in Monsey and I've been there plenty to see.
How come when you take a walk on a nice Shabbes afternoon do some of you let your children play outside and throw balls at people, curse, downtalk, and not answer 'Gut Shabbes' as the custom is there? Just because I'm not dressed with beige stockings and wearing a robe/snood/wig w/ a hat like you? Just because my child isn't complety shaved bald and has curly paoyes like your child? Or perhaps when before I was married, how come your child called me a shikse? Because my hair wasn't in a ponytail and cut shorter then my shoulders? Because I wasn't dressed the way you were?
I've had plenty of horrible experiances at Lakewood and Monsey and Boro Park. I've been tought in the school I went to, a certain Chassidish one in Boro Park, that "We are better then everyone else and treat everyone that isn't like you in a lesser way."
Why? Isn't ALL JEWS the same? How come isn't anyone accepting of another 'religioun style'? How come two chassidish worlds feud? How come isn't anyone teaching their child to be accepting of someone else even if they aren't dressed? We are still jewish.
DO you know how many people went off the derech because of certain people's behaviour? How come Chabbad is the only leading 'chassidus' that accepts any jew, even not religous and has the power of bringing a person back? Why can't everyone do it? The reason why Mosiach isn't here yet is becuase of hateward towards one another and the fellow jew. Think about it.
Why aren't people teaching their children how to behave and be accepting? Simple words from a babe's mouth can do wonders.... Bring a person back or turn him.... And I do have loads of stories about this, but I'll stop now. |
I am appalled at your post. I don't know if it was the way you've written with such negativity towards Chassidim or at the horrible way you were treated which I am having a very hard time believing but if you say so I have to believe you. I have never ever ever heard of such an experience. Yes I have heard from not smiling, not greeting, staring and talking in yiddish in front of them which is very unfortunate because it's totally not the right way to act towards your fellow jew. But to come here and write a post starting with: "I'd love a Chassidishe lady to answer my question" which makes it seem as if all the Chassidish ladies should know the answer because they all behave this way. I am going to assume here that you have a negative view towards Chassidim even before you experienced most of what you wrote here.
I agree that many Chassidim bring their children up too sheltered in the way of how they view other types of Yidden. I agree that staring is wrong and rude (although not when it's done by young children but they should be taught not to do it.). But just as you think that All Chassidishe ladies here should be able to answer your question of these ignorant behaviors so too do I think that your question is of ignorant nature just as much.
It is IGNORANT to believe that All chassidim behave this way. It is IGNORANT to demand an answer from a Chassidishe lady here as if it's the normal behavior and she should be able thus to answer your question.
I also find many other questions very ignorant (not from the poster that I quoted above.) But innocent questions like:
Do Chassidish ladies wear make-up? Umm did you really think otherwise? I've seen ladies without makeup in Flatbush and in Ceaderhurst but most of them do wear make-up and the same thing goes for Boro park and Williamsburg. Or ignorant and at the same time insulting questions like do they converse with their husbands more than just how was your day?  or maybe  is a better emoticon. I wish you all as deeply as loving and intimate and close marriages like many Chassidishe couples that I know.
And just as a BTW, I was once with my family unloading the carriages and baby on Central Avenue in Lawrence and there were a few older girls like 17 I would say who were staring at us as if we were Aliens from Mars. So it goes both ways. Of course it doesn't make it right.
I'll finish off with I Love you all wether you wear multi-colored lipstick with red nailpolish and denim skirts with a slit till your thighs and triple ear piercing or a shpitzel with 100 denier stockings with a seam. No matter how ignorant your questions are or how passionate your post wether negative or positive towards Chassidim are. I don't stare at you, I am always very friendly to everyone and I love you. And I am Gasp as you may have guessed Chassidish.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 2:29 am
amother above, well done!!!  
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First Lady
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 2:32 am
| Quote: | | And just as a BTW, I was once with my family unloading the carriages and baby on Central Avenue in Lawrence and there were a few older girls like 17 I would say who were staring at us as if we were Aliens from Mars. So it goes both ways. Of course it doesn't make it right. |
I have to agree with this.
About 4-6 weeks ago (you see I can't even remember exactly when which is a sign that it's time to go out again lol) I went out with my husband to eat at Hapisga Steakhouse in Queens (I am saying the place so in case any one of you were there please tell me, I'd love to hear how we appeared lol). We walked in and were shown our table and I would almost swear that all eyes from the surrounding tables were upon us that we really wanted to walk out from the first minute. DH and I are both not the type to give a hoot to what others do, think, say but this was way beyond the limit. The lady at the table right across us kept stealing glances at me every few seconds, not minutes, seconds!! From the table right next to theirs the man and the two women with him did not stop staring. It was really ridiculously uncomfortable and here was my night out with my husband and we were supposed to be enjoying ourselves and we were spending money for it and we really felt uncomfortable. From the two sides of us they were staring just as much one table with two women and the other table with 2 couples seated.
Finally we decided that we were celebrities and all the people at the surrounding tables were the paparazzi and with that fantasy in mind we had a good laugh and were able to just ignore everybody and ultimately have a good time. Then we played Dan Lkaf Zchus that maybe it was interesting for the fact that my DH probably looks more Chassidish than me or maybe I looked that gorgeous and probably they couldn't take their eyes off this raving beauty 
I think it's human nature sometimes to stare at something that's interesting or different to what you are accustomed to, but as mature adults we should be able to be in control of our instincts and to make sure that we are controlling them to behave in the appropriate fashion.
From all over everybody needs to be taught tolerance, acceptance and to love your fellow Jew like yourself.
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creativemommyto3
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 3:24 am
The reason why I asked about the shmoozing between husband and wife is for two reasons:
1) b/c the men and women seem to be VERY separate in chassidish ppl to the point where the dating is also very limited. I was trying to understand how after only a couple of meetings that the couple could actually have what to talk about. I don't mean it in a bad way.
2) b/c shmoozing with my husband is something I want more of in my life, so I was curious about others.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 4:07 am
| Quote: | | b/c the men and women seem to be VERY separate in chassidish ppl to the point where the dating is also very limited. |
It's exactly the same in the Litvish and Lubavitch world until it comes to dating. So while by the Litvish and Lubavitch world the opposite genders might start opening up to one another starting from dating by the Chassidishe world it happens during engagement or after marriage. It's just a matter of timing but once a couple is together, they have a normal relationship wether they belong to Litvish, Modern or chassidishe world. (I'm talking about normal circumstances here)
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creativemommyto3
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 4:44 am
that makes sense.
The main reason why I started this thread was because I saw how happy chassidishe women are with their roles and I wanted to learn from that.
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Mama Bear
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 10:35 am
| momsrus wrote: |
I beg to differ with you here. Why would u say that chassidishe men don't learn and their wives don't work? That is totally not true. There are plenty of ft learning men in our community. And as for lakewood all major chassidisus have a shtebel there, there are plenty of cassidim there. | I live in williamsburg, and the vast majority, I'd say 90%, of women are stay at home moms whose husbands work. yes, there are working women, but they are few and far in between.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:06 am
| momtomor wrote: | | Quote: | | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question. | The kids in my own building sometimes debate in front of me, in Yiddish, whether I am a Yiddishe woman or a shikse. |
I am shocked. What an awful lack of derech eretz. If my child acted that way to an adult, I would seriously worry about his chinuch and middos and see what needs correcting, but I would never accept this kind of behavior.
But I see that unfortuantely, this is the norm in some circles and absolutley of no concern. I'll tell you something, my child would never talk this way to a person, Jewish or non-Jewish and that's because my community strives to bring up children who have derech eretz. Sad that derech eretz is a lost middah where you are from.
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Maya
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:14 am
| Mama Bear wrote: | | momsrus wrote: |
I beg to differ with you here. Why would u say that chassidishe men don't learn and their wives don't work? That is totally not true. There are plenty of ft learning men in our community. And as for lakewood all major chassidisus have a shtebel there, there are plenty of cassidim there. | I live in williamsburg, and the vast majority, I'd say 90%, of women are stay at home moms whose husbands work. yes, there are working women, but they are few and far in between. |
Not among the really young couples, though. Most of the women I know that are married 2-3 years, and have a kid or two are working. After the second, most stop and give the job over to their husbands.
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Maya
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:15 am
| amother wrote: | | momtomor wrote: | | Quote: | | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question. | The kids in my own building sometimes debate in front of me, in Yiddish, whether I am a Yiddishe woman or a shikse. |
I am shocked. What an awful lack of derech eretz. If my child acted that way to an adult, I would seriously worry about his chinuch and middos and see what needs correcting, but I would never accept this kind of behavior.
But I see that unfortuantely, this is the norm in some circles and absolutley of no concern. I'll tell you something, my child would never talk this way to a person, Jewish or non-Jewish and that's because my community strives to bring up children who have derech eretz. Sad that derech eretz is a lost middah where you are from. |
Yes, unfortunately, frumkeit is more important than middos and manners. But it's not a rule; there are many decent parents who teach their kids to be nice and have middos.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:22 am
| Mama Bear wrote: | | momsrus wrote: |
I beg to differ with you here. Why would u say that chassidishe men don't learn and their wives don't work? That is totally not true. There are plenty of ft learning men in our community. And as for lakewood all major chassidisus have a shtebel there, there are plenty of cassidim there. | I live in williamsburg, and the vast majority, I'd say 90%, of women are stay at home moms whose husbands work. yes, there are working women, but they are few and far in between. |
MamaBear I think you are not including the Shaitel machers, the ebay sellers, the miniature makers and cake bakers, the graphic designers, the make-up artists, the hair stylists, the electrolysis and waxing ladies, the in house (lol) store sellers, like paintings, home decor. The diet ladies and nutritionists, the shaklee sellers. They might do it from home but some of them are still the bread winners of their families even if they don't "Go Out" to work. 90% might be at home but from that 90% I'd think it's fair to say that at least 25% work. So that makes it 35%.
That is the beauty of the Williamsburg women. They take their talents and work it around their priority which is to be home with her children. I admire them immensely and am just a tad envious (hence the amother feature.) I happen to do business with many women in Williamsburg so I know about them. I think the Chassidishe world has it straight. Mothers are home with their children and the fathers are the breadwinners but the women can still use her talents to help to parnassa or if needed to be the primary breadwinner.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:28 am
| amother wrote: | | momtomor wrote: | | Quote: | | I'd love a Chassidish lady to answer my above question. | The kids in my own building sometimes debate in front of me, in Yiddish, whether I am a Yiddishe woman or a shikse. |
I am shocked. What an awful lack of derech eretz. If my child acted that way to an adult, I would seriously worry about his chinuch and middos and see what needs correcting, but I would never accept this kind of behavior.
But I see that unfortuantely, this is the norm in some circles and absolutley of no concern. I'll tell you something, my child would never talk this way to a person, Jewish or non-Jewish and that's because my community strives to bring up children who have derech eretz. Sad that derech eretz is a lost middah where you are from. |
Momtomor you're giving the impression to non-Williamsburgers that our children are like that. Why are you digging your own whole and making all the children in your community appear like this?
I am shocked.
I agree that there are children like that in Williamsburg. But how about you focus on the glass half full? On the wonderful children with Derech Eretz and beautiful Middos like my children and my neices and nephews and I'm sure many more who are brought up with beautiful middos.
Amother don't be so sad as per your comment | Quote: | | Sad that derech eretz is a lost middah where you are from | It's OK, you can lighten up. We have wonderful children here in Williamsburg who are the epitome of Derech Eretz'dik kids with great middos.
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Tehilla
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:33 am
| Quote: | | It's OK, you can lighten up. We have wonderful children here in Williamsburg who are the epitome of Derech Eretz'dik kids with great middos. |
I must say, outside of that seemingly ever present percentage of people who just do stare and say the wrong thing...I've been many many times to Williamsburg, Monsey, Boro Park, and live in Crown Heights. The children are pure treasures to be around. And since we're speaking specifically about Williamsburg, I've never once been offended there by anyone. To the contrary, everyone has always been pleasant, helpful, and very kind.
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Mama Bear
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:36 am
| momtomor wrote: |
Not among the really young couples, though. Most of the women I know that are married 2-3 years, and have a kid or two are working. After the second, most stop and give the job over to their husbands. | Of course working with just one or two children is common. I'm talking about the type of lakewood kollel families where the women ae the breadwinners their whole lives and the men learn their whole lives.
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Mama Bear
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Thu, Dec 27 2007, 11:37 am
| amother wrote: | | Mama Bear wrote: | | momsrus wrote: |
I beg to differ with you here. Why would u say that chassidishe men don't learn and their wives don't work? That is totally not true. There are plenty of ft learning men in our community. And as for lakewood all major chassidisus have a shtebel there, there are plenty of cassidim there. | I live in williamsburg, and the vast majority, I'd say 90%, of women are stay at home moms whose husbands work. yes, there are working women, but they are few and far in between. |
MamaBear I think you are not including the Shaitel machers, the ebay sellers, the miniature makers and cake bakers, the graphic designers, the make-up artists, the hair stylists, the electrolysis and waxing ladies, the in house (lol) store sellers, like paintings, home decor. The diet ladies and nutritionists, the shaklee sellers. They might do it from home but some of them are still the bread winners of their families even if they don't "Go Out" to work. 90% might be at home but from that 90% I'd think it's fair to say that at least 25% work. So that makes it 35%.
That is the beauty of the Williamsburg women. They take their talents and work it around their priority which is to be home with her children. I admire them immensely and am just a tad envious (hence the amother feature.) I happen to do business with many women in Williamsburg so I know about them. I think the Chassidishe world has it straight. Mothers are home with their children and the fathers are the breadwinners but the women can still use her talents to help to parnassa or if needed to be the primary breadwinner. | Oh, I didnt consider working at home to be working really... I also do ebay, and IYh when all my kids are in school I'll probably expand it and maybe open an office-front. but as I said 90% of the women are stay at home moms, whether they run a business out of their home or not. And those who have all kids off in school and choose to work while the kids are in school are also not part of my equation - I'm talking about the 25-40 year olds, who are for the msot part home with their little ones.
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