Mishpacha Magazine had photos of women in Shavuos issue

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shaqued_almond ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:22 pm

If the magazine had clear guidelines it's no problem to show a tznius woman. This has nothing to do with feminism. In fact not showing a woman's face is an Islamic practice (burka) so why are we adopting such a goyshe practice? Let's be real, if a man wants to let his eyes wander he has 1000 easier ways to do this than a frum magazine.

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:57 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Ahhhh.. so when we learn that Hillel holds one way, and Shammai holds another way, it's LH too.

Hillel and Shammai both had validity.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:59 pm

So are you saying the rabbis you refer to do not? Rather an indictment.....

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:10 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

So are you saying the rabbis you refer to do not? Rather an indictment.....

Anonymous rabbis who may or may not even exist are not necessarily valid.

amother

↑ Lemon ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:14 pm

So why are you using them to prove your point? Again, I'm waiting for an actual name of an actual gadol or at least mainstream rav who says there is an halachic issue with including modest pictures of women. Nobody will name one. And refusing to name one because you claim people will bash him, is a total cop out and makes you lose your credibility.

↑ chestnut ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:33 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Hillel and Shammai both had validity.

So, which rabbis, in your opinion, aren't valid - pro or against women's pics and why?

↑ chestnut ↓

Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:36 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Anonymous rabbis who may or may not even exist are not necessarily valid.

Yeah, think so, too. There goes the validity of your rabbis who said women's pics are against halacha.
I'm seriously beginning to think you are posting for fun and it's not your actual opinion.

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:15 am

chestnut wrote:

Yeah, think so, too. There goes the validity of your rabbis who said women's pics are against halacha.
I'm seriously beginning to think you are posting for fun and it's not your actual opinion.

The anonymous rabbis aren't mine!

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 2:35 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

Seriously??!! I was hoping this was a joke.
Gosh!
No pictures of women - no pictures of men either?! Do you also want to put on tefillin and read from the Torah?! All of you can go join these women at the Wall - or whatever they call themselves.
You want photos of women in magazines for role models? Whom are you kidding? You want them there because you believe you're being mistreated!!
This is not about tznuis. Nor is it about s3xualizing women!
It is about the very Jewish idea that women are not meant to be in public realm. Bringing sources about Devorah and miriam is no comparison. men and women are allowed to interact if need be - that does not mean that women have to have their photographs in hundreds of jewish homes for anyone to look at. I doubt the neviah Devora would have been to happy if a drawing of her were to be in the hands of anyone that wanted. A man should not look at a woman (other than family) in the face unnecessarily. (Simiiarly, the Mishna says: "Al tarbeh sicha im isha" - not to engage in unnecessary conversation with a woman other than family) I was also taught that a man should not walk behind a women. All of this is not because women are second-rate or not tznius. The torah considers women holy. I think I remember learning that after birth - women traditionally had to wait longer to get tahor after they gave birth to a son, as opposed to a daughter, because girs have less tumah than boys.
I'm sorry that I don't have better proofs and arguments right now, I am too upset to think this through clearly.
I just hope all of you who so desperately want to see women in magazines take two minutes to think about what your motive is behind you opinion.
It seems as if many of you are talking out of anger at a system that placed dress codes at the front and center of Yiddishkeit education, and at the same system who believes they can make rules about how women should dress and other issues.
Aderaba, do some research, talk to a rav you respect that can help you clarify the matter and differentiate what was misrepresented in your education and what is in reality the torah's view.
Unless following the Torah is not a value for you...

Its amazing to me how much brainwashing some people accept.
If the whole issue of women not being in newspaper/magazines has nothing to do with tzniut, then this all makes no sense. Really. How is what you wrote, that women are not meant to be seen in the public realm, not connected to tzniut? And if so, how is NOT having females out there NOT about 2exualizing females? That is exactly what it is doing.

And yes, many people, men included, are angry at that. Why is is such a shock to want to have women in magazines just like men are there? Nothing to do with being mistreated? Its everything to do with certain frum communities are becoming more and more like muslim countries, in regards to women. Its really terrible. And its not the judaism that I practice, thats for sure.

hot chocolate! ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:18 pm

umm this is a very heated thread that I find
SAD SAD SAD.
why on earth would anyone want pics of women in magazines? YES Men should respect women for who the are,yes,pics of little girls are ok,but this is yiddishkeit, yes yes yes YES YES YES. yiddishkeit comes with boundaries everything about judaism is about boundaries, and without it judaism's would be gone chv. Halalch dictates that from a girls certain age she should be modest. being in a magazine read by men is immodest at best.
And for those who make the ridiculous claims that no rabbis assured it well I could get you ALMOST ALL orthodox rabbanim saying that its not appropriate and the reason no one has any is bec no one has ASKED THEM ,its such an obvious NO NO that it doesn't even need an answer. will you asks your Rabbi if you may eat bugs? if you may turn on lights on shbbs?no.
this is so so obviously wrong. doesn't even deserve t be asked. duh
But that's not the point. look into our TORAH. CHUMASH. 'SARAH BAOHEL" - what does it mean? women in magazines?
no I don't think that in 2019 this means bundling up in thick waters or staying indoors. but showing women in public magazines is UNJewish .
If you want to officially see women in frum magazines then keep on waiting. I for one ,hope that this never happens,
I for one was DISAPPOINTED (come ahead bash me all up, all of you"!) I was disappointed to see pictures of women in the shavuot magazine. perhaps it was a mistake. I hope.

Our purity is our strength. please , please Jewish women.

↑ ectomorph

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:29 pm

hot chocolate! wrote:

I also want to say that the entire world was more modest a century ago. Things have changed.

gingertop ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:33 pm

ectomorph wrote:

I also want to say that the entire world was more modest a century ago. Things have changed.

The frum world most certainly wasn't.

And 1920's Europe when nearly every man had a secret mistress was not exactly the pure world we sometimes imagine

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:34 pm

hot chocolate! wrote:

Im just going to be honest here. When I read your reply, I couldnt pick my lower lip back up from the floor. shock

I can not believe there are frum women out there that believe this.
And if you are so sure that almost all orthodox rabbi will say it is is inappropriate, I have a bridge to sell you.

↑ hot chocolate! ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:36 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Im just going to be honest here. When I read your reply, I couldnt pick my lower lip back up from the floor. shock

I can not believe there are frum women out there that believe this.
And if you are so sure that almost all orthodox rabbi will say it is is inappropriate, I have a bridge to sell you.

oish hows ur lip?

Yes I believe so with a passion. challenge me.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:36 pm

gingertop wrote:

The frum world most certainly wasn't.

And 1920's Europe when nearly every man had a secret mistress was not exactly the pure world we sometimes imagine

Key word here is "secret". Nowadays there is no shame in the secular world, and not enough in the Jewish world either. Whatever happened to "rachmanim, BAYSHANIM, v'gomlei chasodim"?

↑ gingertop

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:41 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Key word here is "secret". Nowadays there is no shame in the secular world, and not enough in the Jewish world either. Whatever happened to "rachmanim, BAYSHANIM, v'gomlei chasodim"?

Adultery is still mostly a secret- until it gets revealed. No one's advertising it. Back in the 1920's it was very, very common. Probably more than today. And because babies were born, it was very not secret

Prostitution, zxual slavery, and p@@nography are not new.

Yes, ideally we should be bayshanim.

No, they weren't all a whole bunch of eidel meidels back then.

And specifically about frum tznius- It used to be acceptable to wear short sleeves in even the most rabbinic homes. Now, there are more frum people who cover. It used to be common not to cover hair. Now, more frum people cover.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 1:41 pm

hot chocolate! wrote:

oish hows ur lip?

Yes I believe so with a passion. challenge me.

I am not going to challenge you. Why would I? You believe xyz and I dont. Neither one of us is going to change their minds, so why bother? I just find it unbelievable that frum WOMEN could think this way.

↑ hot chocolate!

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 2:11 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

100% no point and seems to be upsetting some ppl.
I guess opinions differ, strongly.

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 2:24 pm

hot chocolate! wrote:

But that's not the point. look into our TORAH. CHUMASH. 'SARAH BAOHEL" - what does it mean?

Surely you know that the malachim wanted Sarah to come outside, so they could speak to her directly, not through her husband.

The malachim were sent by Hashem. Is Hashem not frum enough for you?

↑ Laiya ↓

Thu, Jun 20 2019, 2:32 pm

gingertop wrote:

Agree with your post. Slightly off topic but can't help commenting on the bolded. Sometimes, babies stayed a secret because they were given up for adoption. But now, the children and grandchildren of those babies are searching for their "bio" families, and with DNA testing...all the ancient secrets are coming out. Pretty fascinating actually.

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