What to do about feeling good abt lashon hara ltoeles?

amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 5:33 am

I am far from a tzadekes and have many lashon hara problems but I encountered something weird today. I had to tell lashon hara ltoeles. And though I was trying to be careful, making sure I needed to tell it (and I did) I sorta felt good about it. How should one work on that?? I felt like I was doing something good by telling it, and I was... but I still shouldnt have felt good telling what the person did wrong.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 6:28 am

You are allowed to tell lashon hara for a purpose - to help someone. Like lets say someone is trying to become a principal of an elementary school and I know as a fact that he is a child molester, I not only can, but should say something because there is a positive purpose in it.
I had a situation where I was looking to buy a house and we asked ppl renting it at the time to tell us what is wrong with it. They SHOULD tell bc there is a purpose... not stam to say bad things.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 7:00 am

I know I did the right thing by telling. No question there.
But it's something that you are usually doing wrong when you say lashon hara. Here it was right... But I guess since you usually cant rant someone out and this time I could I sort of felt good. And I know I shouldnt have. It's still not nice to tell something not nice about someone. I dont even know the person so it had nothing to do with getting back at them. I dont know exactly what I felt good about actually. Maybe it was that I could help the person on the other end? I really dont know.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 7:24 am

Another question - let's say I have to say lashon hara l'toeles, is it allowed to pass through more ppl than is absolutely necessary? Like let's say my husband parents have lashon hara ltoeles that is relevant to my sister. Can my in laws tell me, to tell my parents to tell my sister just bc it is more convenient since they dont really know her (or even leaving me out of the equation - can they tell my parents to tell my sister) or do they need to tell her directly?

Mimisinger ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 7:49 am

You can have a shaliach do it if the person would take it more to heart from someone else. HOWEVER, the shaliach has to do their own research to make sure that everything is true and exact, they cannot take your word for it. Also, you are not supposed to go through more people than necessary. Also, you are not supposed to use more info. than necessary if less would do the job.

For ex. someone used the ex. of the principal who molested kids. Someone could say that the principal was indited for molesting a student, and that the school should research that before hiring him, as no school (hopefully) would hire a principal once they heard that. It's not needed (or allowed) to then, describe what he was indited for, how many children, who the children are, etc. You can only use the minimum info. required to get the action you want, that is keeping the principal from being hired.

red sea

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 10:16 am

if you met all 7 conditions for to'eles then maybe you felt good because you knew you were doing something correctly and not staying quiet if youre supposed to tell.

Mevater

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 10:22 am

amother wrote:

... I dont even know the person so it had nothing to do with getting back at them.

Are you saying that you helped a third party by telling them xomething bad about s/o you don't know? Somehow I find it hard to believe that anyone could be trusted to give info on a person they don't know, and therefore it would NOT be L'Toeles.

Did I misunderstand?

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 10:37 am

Yea its 100% factual. I cant give the details in case I give myself away.
Let's just say the person who gave the details to me found it out 1sthand in front of me. I ended up being the one to connect the 2 parties. And it is more than stam a person who was the firsthand account. It would be the equivelant of a principal of a school involved, head of a company involved, primary dr involved etc...

↑ Mimisinger ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 11:25 am

Sorry, but it doesn't sound like you did any research at all. You heard something and then told someone else about it. That's loshon hora...no toeles about it. Actually, it could also be hotzaas shem ra. You have no idea whether it's even true!

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 11:29 am

I am telling you (and you dont know the story at all so I dont know how you could come to the conclusion you did) that I am positive it was 100% toeles and it was 100% true. Not even a question.

↑ Mimisinger

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 11:32 am

Ok, then if it's toeles, to make yourself NOT feel good about it, put yourself in the other persons shoes. What if you had that problem? What if you were related to that person? It's important to be proud of mitzvos but as I'm sure you know, it's not right to feel good about to'eles b/c it could cause you to do it for the right reason. So, put yourself into their shoes or family, now how do you feel?

↑ amother

Wed, Oct 10 2007, 12:38 pm

I guess you are right. The person clearly has problems based on what was done and I know they have family problems too. Its no wonder. Thanks.