Is a Kesubah really special?!

greenfire ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 10:14 am

can't figure out why a kesubah is so special ... so far as I recall ... it states whether or not we are a virgin status ... a bas yisroel ... how much of what we woman will get from man if they divorce ...

seems more like a "pre-nuptual" ... so why the big deal ?!?!?!

mumoo ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 10:44 am

yeah, not supposed to displaying it like it s artwork... the kallah is given the kesubah after chuppah and she is supposed to put it in a place where only she, not the choson, knows where it is. it is a legal document- not a painting

↑ TammyTammy ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 10:46 am

mumoo wrote:

Actually, we have two. We have the real one, which I keep and we have a fake artsy one (obviously not real -- the filled in info and the signatures all have the same handwriting) hanging on our living room wall.

Tammy

mali ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 10:55 am

The ketubah is the wedding contract which features the husband’s various obligations to his wife. The focal point of the document is the financial compensation due to the wife in the event of the marriage’s dissolution through divorce or widowhood. The ketubah even includes provisions which place liens on the husband’s different assets. The document is signed by kosher witnesses, but not necessarily the same witnesses who observe the betrothal beneath the chupah.

According to most halachic authorities, the ketubah is a rabbinic ordinance. The sages were troubled by the relative ease whereby a man could divorce his wife. They therefore instituted that no man may be married to a woman unless he obligates himself to pay a substantial imbursement in the event that he divorces her.

The issue of her being a virgin or not is a very side point, which just changes the imbursement in the event of a divorce ch"v.

Ruchel ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 10:57 am

Many people want a gorgeous one to hang it in the living room with the marriage pic!

I refused the first they gave us, because I wanted one too LOL

We still need to hang it, we've been hunting for a beautiful frame Smile

↑ greenfire ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 11:02 am

Ruchel wrote:

Many people want a gorgeous one to hang it in the living room with the marriage pic!

I refused the first they gave us, because I wanted one too LOL

We still need to hang it, we've been hunting for a beautiful frame Smile

you refused ?!?!?! if you want a particularly pretty one - you have to go out and buy it yourself ... or have someone draw you one ...

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 11:54 am

I see more non religious than religious people hanging up their kesuvah. It doens't eman anything, but just a thought...it might just be my crowd, but you also see less religous people with Mogen Dovids and Mezuzas as jewelry, too.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 11:56 am

They were given them for free, but they had two types. A plain one, and a nice one they were only giving to people who asked for them (= who knew about their existence). B'h I had heard of that!

People with magen davids are generally not charedi, I agree cm.

lamplighter ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 1:34 pm

funny, u know the first time I saw one hanging up, I thought to myself would they hang it up in English??????
It only looks like soemthing to hang bc its in Hebrew, translated would be rather amusing, especially next to the wedding pic

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 1:56 pm

True, a translation would be very fun. At university, my friends asked me to show them "if it's true that Jewish women receive a stuff called katuba (sic!) with "virgin" written on it" LOL
I brought the ketuba to uni, the teacher was so fascinated by it that he allowed the students to ask questions about it the whole lesson, instead of working, as long as it was in English (to make us practice). They all loved it because this lesson was horribly boring Twisted Evil

miriamnechama ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 3:29 pm

mali wrote:

mali I heard of girls who were not vigin even before the got married for what ever reason. not 2nd marriage, so does she loose out??

and is there kesuba in 2nd and 3rd marriages etc?? same obligation?? what if a man devorces and then remarries his same wife?? (they say it's a mitzva to do that...)???? Question

↑ TammyTammy ↓

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 3:33 pm

miriamnechama wrote:

mali I heard of girls who were not vigin even before the got married for what ever reason. not 2nd marriage, so does she loose out??

The minimum amount that the kesubah is for is lower for a non-virgin. For a virgin, the minimum amount that the wife gets upon divorce/death of husband is 200 zuz. For a non-virgin, the amount is 100. However, a husband marrying a non-virgin is free to make the kesubah for 200 (or any amount over the minimum).

Quote:

and is there kesuba in 2nd and 3rd marriages etc?? same obligation?? what if a man devorces and then remarries his same wife?? (they say it's a mitzva to do that...)???? Question

Yes, he has to give her a new kesubah and pay again if he divorces her or dies. Each marriage creates its own obligation.

Tammy

mimivan

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 3:47 pm

Yes, the big fancy shamsy ones are a big thing among the Reform etc..

I was doing a search for info. about Ketubot on Google, and accidently wound up on a site that was proudly advertising Lesbian Ketubot shock

The desecration of the document aside, how do they decide who the bride is? And what a Virgin in their world is?

↑ miriamnechama

Tue, Oct 02 2007, 3:53 pm

nowadays noone writes an amout. (sefardim do) cus in reality compensation is much higher and the courts and beis din have to take everythinginto account.

in israel if you do it through the court you get much more than the beis din will give, though not sure if it's allowed...(halachicly??) but anyways one would need also a civil devorce so I suppose the court is part of it...