Your Veiw on Open Orthodoxy

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 1:28 am

DrMom wrote:

Perhaps those who defend OO simply know different rabbanim than you do?

I am not 100% familiar with all of OO's tenets, (BTW, now they do not use the OO name so much anymore: http://jewishweek.timesofisrae.....doxy/ ), but I am willing to learn about their ideas. Maybe some of them are legit and creative and useful ways to solve halachic issues.

Yes? Which mainstream Rabbanim think this movement is legitimate?

And they just changed their name... for now. And they're slightly backpedaling in done of the ideas. Which is not to say that the have really changed their minds, I don't believe that.

↑ tichellady ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 1:34 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

My Rabbis, And I assume others, have better things to do with their time than to talk about other rabbis. They focus on halakhic questions, teaching, the needs of the community etc. I have never heard my rabbi saying anything negative about any jewish teacher or leader, even if he has different halakhic views.

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 1:43 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I have no idea which Rabbanim have endorsed OO. I never claimed to possess this knowledge. My only assertion is that just because YOU don't know of any such Rabbanim does not mean that they do not exist.

imasoftov ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 2:28 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

And here is a link to "The Commentator" - which I understand is a MO publication?

http://yucommentator.org/2013/.....witz/

Explaining the OO position, and how it defers, significantly, with MO.

And according to this article, yes, OO Rabbis are implying that Torah is not meshamayim, and that they can take out the parts of Torah that they find morally offensive.

This article is a response to a previous one by R Yanklowitz, so all we know is that neither the pro or anti OO view is beyond the pale at this publication. But even were it to have taken a side, it's not an official organ of Modern Orthodoxy, it's a student publication at Yeshiva University.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 2:55 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

And what if people say that about your religion? It is Judaism, in the orthodox form, just different than the way you practice it. Why does that mean it has to be WRONG? Why not different? Why does any derech that is not yours have to be wrong?

I really don't need so many other's validation to know I am doing the right thing. I have done my research and I have my rabbanim, community, teachers, classes, friends, etc.

There's plenty of derachim that aren't mine that are valid and correct.
Many different rabanim pasken different than my rav, even in RW society there are differences on how to handle things. When I meet RW Jews from other countries, I see they live a completely different life and derech. When I meet sefardi people who live here or in other countries, it's another derech, and when I meet people here who are RW but have differing opnions or psaks, it's somewhat of a different derech.

↑ DrMom ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 3:19 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

So neither of you know mainstream orthodox rabbis who endorse OO.... I find that very interesting.. .

I don't know why you find it so interesting. I have never looked into it in any depth.

Again, I have neither endorsed or disavowed OO. I am open to learning more about their ideas.

Even if I might not be on board with all of their ideas, I like the fact that they are thinking creatively and innovating. If some of these innovations fall within the bounds of halacha, I would seriously consider those ideas, even if some of their other ideas are more controversial.

chanchy123 ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 4:57 am

I voted for the third option - it's not my place to give any movement or person the "Authentic Orthodox Award". I mean many things that other streams of Judaism, which are considered to be within the realm of Orthodoxy are doing, are beyond the pale halachicly - but as long as they consider themselves within the realm I think it's meaningless for me or anyone else to cast them out. The main point is whether they adhere to halacha or not - and I guess on both sides of the spectrum - they profess to halachic adherence - what else can you ask for. As long as you claim you're in - you're in in my book.

With that caveat many things OO are doing do concern me and make me feel uneasy (without giving them marks on the Orthodox scale or comparing them to any other Orthodox movement). For instance, recently, I came across a Maharat graduate, whom I was quite shocked to understand is married to a Conservative rabbi (this is not shocking in itself because being married to someone who is not part of your denomination doesn't necessarily have any bearing on your practice), is a community leader within his Conservative shul (not Conservodox - Conservative), is an interfaith activist in a form no Orthodox rabbi would permit and she still teaches a course in the Maharat program.
I would understand if she joined the program, became a Maharat and then changed her practice later on - but that really doesn't seem the case, especially since the program seems to embrace her current practice by hiring her as a teacher. This does not reflect very well on the program.

I do think some people who espouse Open Orthodox (or whatever you want to call it) views are walking a thin line between Orthodoxy and Conservatism. How does this reflect on the entire movement? I don't know, time will tell. I honestly don't think this is a conversation worth having today. I mean, we can discuss certain practices (many of which listed upthread seem completely legit to me - others not so much) and debate whether they fall within the boundaries of halacha or not - but as a movement it's way too young to see where it's going and if it's going anywhere.

Edited to add that I am Israeli DL I guess RWMO - so you know where I'm coming from

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 5:19 am

LovesHashem wrote:

But they all are RW drachim, as you showed here.
Its just so sad.

salt ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 6:01 am

The OP was asking what is Your View On Open Orthodoxy.
Why is it disrespectful for someone to answer that their view is that they don't believe it's the right way.
That is her view.
I don't see what's wrong with LovesHashem stating that.

I personally don't know enough about OO to state an opinion. Seems like there are different variations of it. Some slightly more permitting than others.

But if the OP is asking for people's views, what's wrong with a view thinking it's a wrong way?
For whatever reason - probably because many of their practices are close to transgressing certain Torah laws. LovesHashem didn't specify why she is against OO.

I don't think you need to take personally someone else's view that is opposing a view, if you see what I mean.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 6:08 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

dont you see that by default it is disrespecting someone's way of life?

Am I disrespectful of someone gay if I don't believe that it's the right thing or a correct way?
What about someone who isn't shomer shabbat?
What about someone conservative?

I don't understand...
If most RW Jews thought a more permissive life was a valid way, why would so many people take upon themselves "extra" strictness, chumros? Yes there are those who will say, I think MO or OO or wtvr is a valid path, but I feel like this more meaningful, my family is RW, etc...

But seriously, if so many people thought there was a totally equal valid way of serving Hashem that is 100 percent equally as valid, why would so many people be taking the stricter and "harder" path?!

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 6:13 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Loveshashem, I grew up among ALL kinds of jews, very chassidish cousins to not religious at all and those theatr knew nothing at all.
I never in all of my life ever thought that their path that they chose was wrong, it was different than mine. Personally I know that for ME my derech is correct and for the joe shmoe and the shprintza moyelstein, their drachim are correct for them. It doesnt have to mean that one is wrong or right.
I dont live your way of life, but I dont think its wrong. Its 100% wrong for ME, but not for those who chose it. Do you see the difference?

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 6:26 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Not really. I mean, what do you mean wrong for you or right for you?
This isn't like a preference thing. I think of it like a practical thing. Either they are right or wrong, either a doctor is good or not good.

I also grew up with many different types of Jews, and always respected them and knew they were different. But if there's no objective sense of what path is correct or wrong than everything is correct, what stops me from being just like you?

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Dec 24 2017, 6:30 am

LovesHashem wrote:

No, the different paths of judaism are not black and white. There is a LOOOOOOOOT of gray out there. Really. It is very much a preference thing. I know people who have changed their derech in judaism during their life time. It is exactly a choice and not anything else. You (an I as well) are choosing to follow the path of judaism that we are going on.