things to do in frankfurt germany?

↑ rainbow baby ↓

Fri, Jun 22 2007, 4:38 am

That's okey TorahMom48. I would love to be living in EY, but I'am not. My families job is here in Manchester teaching in a non frum school trying to bring these children nearer to Torah and Mitzvahs.

But also there are many peole who hold that they cannot go to EY untill Moshiach comes, it;s not their right to be there untill then. People hold by different things. To tell you the truth I've never actually heard that it is a Mitzvah to make Aliya. Where does it say that?

As for york I've got a feeling that the cherem was lifted about 7 to 8 years ago. The reason why there are no Jews living there has probably got to do with why most small communities are getting smaller each year. Because the young are moving to Manchester and London. The elderly are moving to Bournmouth and the ones that do stay are dying. This is the harsh reality of what is happening to our smaller communities they are literally dying on us. My dh was from Liverpool it used to be a very big community now it is a dying community it's sad, but young people want to be altogether having a good time, etc... Also they usually go to University and decide they like it and stay there.

↑ rainbow baby ↓

Fri, Jun 22 2007, 6:20 am

sarahd wrote:

jewishmamathebest wrote:

TorahMom48 wrote:

I am not so happy about the idea or a Jewish community growing in Germany, if they are being brought closer to judaism good, but otherwise I don' think hashem wants us there and I don'tt see why people would want to live in such a place.

I don't understand this comment. How do you know that Hashem does not want people to live there? After all most of the killings of Jews actually happened in Poland.

Excuse my bluntness, but this is ridiculous. Who was in charge of the killing and who did most of it? Come now..

Why is this so ridiculous. Aushwitz was in Poland the allies when they came near it said that there was a horrible smell miles away from it. The people in the near by town knew about it and did nothing they helped. How many of the Poles joined the Nazi's in rounding up and killing the Jews. The Poles pretend that the Holocost never happened. they say Aushwitz was were the Poles were killed!!!! They are just as guilty as the Nazi's. As for you saying that my statement is ridiculas all I was saying was that MOST of the Jewish blood was spilt on Polish soil, so by that reckoning because so many Jews died there we should not live there. Wherever you go in Poland there are Jewish massgraves. Of course the Nazi's did most of the killing but Poland is the land where it most happened.

sarahd wrote:

Quote:

If it is because the Nazi's were responsible for six million Jews being murdered then maybe Hashem would not want Jewish people to live in Spain because of the Spanish inquisition,

Yup. Were you aware that there was a cherem on living in Spain that just recently expired?,

I only just remembered about this when you mentioned it, but why should it expire now that land will always have Jewish blood on it's hands.

sarahd wrote:

Quote:

or Jews living in England because of the expulsions, or Jews living in Chevran because of the 1929 massacre.

I hope you are aware of the difference in scale between a pogrom in which 60-some people were killed and the attempted genocide of a whole nation.

Why is one life more important then others. Do you really think that if it was possible for these evil people they would not have killed a whole nation? Also you need to remember that going back generations the Jewish population was so much smaller and equipment was so much simpler. They never had guns in those days, they only had horses and they never had gas chambers. People then were so much simpler then people are now adays. It was easier for people to hide, etc.... So how can anyone compare the massacre of Jews centeries ago to the times of the Nazi's and even now with what Iran is planning!!!! Times have changed all I'am saying is that how on earth do we now where Hashem want's us to live. All I now is that Hashem wants to redeem is he wants us to do Torah and Mitzvah's so he can bring Moshiach.

↑ sarahd

Fri, Jun 22 2007, 7:50 am

jewishmamathebest wrote:

Believe me, I'm not advocating giving the Poles a pass - I don't think people should go live in Poland either - but neither do the Germans deserve one.

Quote:

sarahd wrote:

Yup. Were you aware that there was a cherem on living in Spain that just recently expired?,

I only just remembered about this when you mentioned it, but why should it expire now that land will always have Jewish blood on it's hands.

Because a cherem only has its force for 500 years.

Quote:

sarahd wrote:

Quote:

or Jews living in England because of the expulsions, or Jews living in Chevran because of the 1929 massacre.

I hope you are aware of the difference in scale between a pogrom in which 60-some people were killed and the attempted genocide of a whole nation.

1929 is not exactly centuries ago. Expulsions are not genocide.

↑ TorahMom48 ↓

Tue, Jun 26 2007, 10:50 am

jewishmamathebest wrote:

Hmm so by you it is probably still raining every other day here it is a heatwave, Of course if someone has a reason especially a mitzva, that they are doing in chul it is also a worthy thing. do you teach in a kiruv school or you stam on your own try to teach these kids in your class?

This was a discussion here and I'm sure it exists somewhere, so without getting into a debate about mass aliyah, I don't think anyone holds as an individual Jew not to come to E"Y

Quote:

To tell you the truth I've never actually heard that it is a Mitzvah to make Aliya. Where does it say that?

Of course it is a mitzva! (the dispute is whether it is diorayta) ummm do you read parshat hashavua??? cause there are many examples of it all over, but specifically the mitzva of yishuv haaretz! have a look at lech licha for some good examples!

Seraph ↓

Tue, Jun 26 2007, 11:03 am

TorahMom48 wrote:

Quote:

To tell you the truth I've never actually heard that it is a Mitzvah to make Aliya. Where does it say that?

Lech lecha isnt a mitzva for now and for all times... if you say that any commandment given to the avos is a mitzva for now and for all times, why aren't we all sacraficing our firstborns on an akeida?

↑ TorahMom48 ↓

Tue, Jun 26 2007, 11:24 am

breslov wrote:

TorahMom48 wrote:

Quote:

To tell you the truth I've never actually heard that it is a Mitzvah to make Aliya. Where does it say that?

Not True! It is a Mitzva Today.
the only dispute is whether it is deorayta or not.

Quote:

...Yishuv Eretz Yisrael is a mitzvah, what is its biblical source? The Ramban, on two occasions,7 points to the same verses: "Conquer the land and dwell therein." The first phrase is understood by Ramban as obligating the Jewish community, collectively, to take control of the government of Israel, and "not leave it in the hands of another."9 The second phrase, "and dwell therein," legislates a positive commandment for each individual to live in the land of Israel, even if the land is under foreign domination. These two mitzvot, according to Ramban, are applicable throughout history and are as relevant to our generation as to the generation led by Yeshoshua Bin Nun, who first entered Israel.

The Rambam does not consider it one of the 613 Mitzvot, rather a Dirabanan.

And btw your logic is no proof, it just means that there can be things which we don't still do because we can't do them - You can not take it around and say everything done then we do not do now.

Last edited by TorahMom48 on Tue, Jun 26 2007, 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Seraph

Tue, Jun 26 2007, 11:29 am

TorahMom48 wrote:

breslov wrote:

TorahMom48 wrote:

Quote:

To tell you the truth I've never actually heard that it is a Mitzvah to make Aliya. Where does it say that?

Not True! It is a Mitzva Today.
the only dispute is whether it is deorayta or not.

And your logic is no proof, it just means that there can be things which we don't still do because we can't do them - You can not take it around and say everything done then we do not do now.

I don't beleive its a mitzva. If you want to tell me its a mitzva, you'll have to bring sources and not just say its a mitzva.
What my point was about the akeida is as follows- you said that it says in lech lecha to go to eretz yisrael. Yes, that was Hashem telling avraham what to do. But when Hashem gives avraham a nisayon, that doesnt prove its a mitzva for now and for all times, otherwise doing an akedia would also be a mitzva. But its not.
So I would need some proof aside for that that its a mitzva nowadays.

↑ TorahMom48

Thu, Jun 28 2007, 11:56 am

Quote:

I realize I may have started this but If you still want to take this further lets take it somewhere else, where it will be on topic but I'm pretty sure it already exists somewhere else. So if you wish to keep debating would you please find the appropriate place.

I am more than happy to discuss this with you further but not in
"re: things to do in frankfurt germany?"

maybe you missed what I wrote above (and I understood your example the first time, all I said was that it does not proove anything every case is different)