What school did you go to?

↑ debsey ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 11:44 am

amother wrote:

Ah, so Satmar=Prison. Thank you. That is all.

In my example, I'm using a kal v'chomer, or in Latin what is know as argument a fortiori, which means basically "from the stronger case."

If PRISONERS, many of whom I observed to be from disadvantaged backgrounds and/or functionally illiterate can get a GED, then how much more so a girl from Satmar who IS taught to read English and do math, and is also taught basic respect, responsibility, and a work ethic (this, I am basing on my Satmar employee and my cousins)

Satmar= the better background. Prison=prison. Sadly, I'm beginning to agree with you about the quality of your education. MamaBear, however, must have paid more attention in reading class.

Logic - you're on your own with that. You can take a class (I mean this, I'm not being sarcastic. you can take classes in logical reasoning and constructing arguments in a college class) I didn't have a background in logic when I started college either. It can be learned.

Last edited by debsey on Wed, Jul 27 2016, 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 11:52 am

debsey wrote:

Prison=prison. Sadly, I'm beginning to agree with you about the quality of your education. MamaBear, however, must have paid more attention in reading class. In my example, I'm using a kal v'chomer, or in Latin what is know as argument a fortiori, which means basically "from the stronger case."

If PRISONERS, many of whom I observed to be from disadvantaged backgrounds and/or functionally illiterate can get a GED, then how much more so a girl from Satmar who IS taught to read English and do math, and is also taught basic respect, responsibility, and a work ethic (this, I am basing on my Satmar employee and my cousins)

Satmar= the better background. Prison=prison. Sadly, I'm beginning to agree with you about the quality of your education. MamaBear, however, must have paid more attention in reading class.

Logic - you're on your own with that. You can take a class (I mean this, I'm not being sarcastic. you can take classes in logical reasoning and constructing arguments in a college class) I didn't have a background in logic when I started college either. It can be learned.

Basically, you are saying that Satmar girls had no right to graduate high school with an accredited high school diploma after attending 12 years of school and then you go on saying that if illiterate people in prison can get their GED, Satmar girls can get it as well if that is what they want.

Let me ask you, why is it important for people in prison to get their GED? If they are in prison then there is no need to be educated or have a GED so why do they work so hard to get their high school diploma?

↑ debsey ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

1)Satmar PARENTS have a Constitutional right to educate their minor children as they see fit. Satmar CHILDREN can then grow up, and get a GED, if they wish. I am saying that Satmar girls do graduate with the tools to do so, those tools being English literacy and basic math.

2) Here's the thing about prisons. People don't remain there. Some have upwardly mobile dreams of what their lives will be like when they get out. Getting a GED is an important first step towards realizing those dreams.

↑ debsey ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 11:59 am

sequoia wrote:

But you have to admit that MB is indifferent towards everything except gossip and reality shows (while being a brilliant writer, which makes it even sadder). Anyone with a modicum of curiosity about the world would want to learn more.

And you have to admit, her gift for writing and command of the English language means she is capable of getting a GED and could hold her own in any Liberal Arts institution in this country, should she wish to do so. She is capable of getting a PhD, if she wanted one.

↑ cnc ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:01 pm

amother wrote:

I should hope that(some) prisoners don't plan on staying there for the rest of their life.

To add to your first point, I believe that Satmar is pretty straight up with their policy of no diplomas. The only people that you can blame is your parents or whoever chose to send you to that school. It's not as if the school made you work for twelve years, pretending that you will get that diploma and then said that they are not giving you one.

At this point, stop kvetching and putting the blame elsewhere. Get your GED(if you haven't yet-I'm not sure whether or not you stated that you do), and make different decisions for your children. They will most likely be grateful to you.

I know quite a few Satmar, Skver etc.. graduates with advanced degrees. The key is to stop regretting the past and just focus on the future.

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:10 pm

debsey wrote:

Satmar parents also have a constitutional right to only feed their kids bread and water, that doesn't make it right.

debsey wrote:

2) Here's the thing about prisons. People don't remain there. Some have upwardly mobile dreams of what their lives will be like when they get out. Getting a GED is an important first step towards realizing those dreams.

People in prison should get their high school diplomas because they don't stay in prison, but people in Satmar should not graduate high school because they stay in Satmar. People in prison have a right to fulfill their dreams, people in Satmar don't. In other words, Satmar is a life sentence, prison isn't.

↑ cnc ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not clear what's stopping you from getting a GED.
Is it that you're lacking skills? Parental pressure?
It seems like you just want to vent and not actually do anything constructive. That's fine.

Also, if you disagree with a post, there are more mature ways to go about it than hugging. Wink

Do you( or whoever the hugger is) hug people IRL when you disagree with them?

↑ suremom ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

I'm really sorry for you for being sentenced for life to satmar (whatever that means)
signed, a satmar graduate who actually graduated at 16. (ged)

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:31 pm

cnc wrote:

Do you( or whoever the hugger is) hug people IRL when you disagree with them?

This is not about getting a GED, this is about graduating high school with a regents and/or accredited high school diploma after attending school for 12 years.

BTW, the people in prison will also be able to talk about cultural things such as tv, movies, sports, etc which Satmar girls know nothing about so I guess the people in prison are better off than Satmar girls to begin with..

↑ cnc ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

It seems like your issues stem a lot deeper than not getting a diploma.

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:37 pm

cnc wrote:

It seems like your issues stem a lot deeper than not getting a diploma.

Like what? Wanting to be a well rounded educated person in both Jewish and Secular studies while also being culturally knowledgeable enough to have a decent conversation with people outside of my community? Are those deep "issues" that I should be concerned about or see a therapist for because I grew up Satmar?

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

Yes I did hear that Bp vien is a pretty good school but the one from Williamsburg is ------

Actually, it's the BP Vien that was Puke

. I don't know anything about any other branch because I don't care to ask nor hear. My opinion is based on my experience in BP Vien high school whose hanhalla, as I mentioned upthread, is responsible for quite a few OTD girls and produced some very messed up people.

↑ cnc ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:56 pm

amother wrote:

I guess it depends what crowds you associate with.
The crowds that I associate with outside of my community (such as my upper class non- religious relatives) are generally not talking about movies, pop culture etc.. That may be because they are highly educated and more likely to talk about breaking news in the medical fields etc..

Sports (and really all of the things that you mentioned) are an interest-if it is one of YOUR interests then start following it and you can discuss it with others. This has nothing to do with Satmar, I can't tell you the first thing about soccer, simply because it doesn't interest me. I can tell you a bit about baseball because I have a little interest in it, (not much to be honest though..)

I wouldn't think they're deep issues, except that you're making them out to be ....
If it bothers you, start educating yourself. If you want specific recommendations as to how you can gain knowledge in certain fields maybe start a thread and posters with those interests can guide you.

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 12:57 pm

cnc wrote:

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I should hope that(some) prisoners don't plan on staying there for the rest of their life.

To add to your first point, I believe that Satmar is pretty straight up with their policy of no diplomas. The only people that you can blame is your parents or whoever chose to send you to that school. It's not as if the school made you work for twelve years, pretending that you will get that diploma and then said that they are not giving you one.

At this point, stop kvetching and putting the blame elsewhere. Get your GED(if you haven't yet-I'm not sure whether or not you stated that you do), and make different decisions for your children. They will most likely be grateful to you.

I know quite a few Satmar, Skver etc.. graduates with advanced degrees. The key is to stop regretting the past and just focus on the future.

Satmar never informed me that I will not be graduating with an accredited high school diploma nor do they inform any of their students about it so not sure where you get your information from. But I would like to hear about the Satmar and Skver graduates who have advanced degrees, please share their info. Thanks.

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 1:37 pm

cnc wrote:

Like you said, it depends what crowds you associate with which is why its important to be a well-rounded educated person so that you can talk to just about anyone. And yes, I can learn whatever I want today, that is not the issue here and I resent when people deflect from the real issue.
Kids go to school for 12 years, they should be educated appropriately. If a girl went to a religious school her entire life there should be no reason why she should be saying that she never learned Chumash, Rashi, etc. What is the point of attending religious school if you don't learn about religion directly from the sources itself? And why shouldn't a girls attending religious school learn about her religion directly from the sources?
Its the same with secular studies. A girl who went to school for 12 years should at the very least be able to have something to show for it. In this case, it would be a regents and/or accredited high school diploma. Otherwise, whats the point of going to school for 12 years? And why shouldn't she be able to say that she has a high school diploma after 12 years of school? Why bother going to school for 12 years if she has nothing to show for it (in this case, both secular and jewish studies as described above)?

↑ cnc ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 1:58 pm

amother wrote:

The something to show for it , in my eyes would be the KNOWLEDGE, not the piece of paper!
If you think about it, is the piece of paper worth anything if you don't have the knowledge? It is so simple to get that stupid piece of paper now...

Regarding the religious studies, I agree with you but it's not my place to comment as FWIU that is the Satmar Shittah and I assume that is what your parents follow if that's the school that they chose for you...bringing me back to my original point. Blame your parents not the school.

I apologize if I am deflecting from the real issue, I am just having a bit of a hard time comprehending what the real issue is...

amother

↑ Mint ↓

Wed, Jul 27 2016, 2:02 pm

cnc wrote:

What kind of "knowledge" do you think a girl should have after 12 years of school?

Oh, and how about I blame the Satmar Rebbe for leading my parents to believe that girls are not allowed to learn Chumash, Rashi, etc or graduate high school with an accredited high school diploma because it was his shittah as you said so if it weren't for him then things would be different today.