"The Secret" (a movie)

Motek ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 3:14 pm

here's a scathing review of it:

http://www.aish.com/societyWor.....d.asp

you can read the comments that follow the article

my husband's comment on it (he didn't read it, just heard what it was about) was that the author's view goes counter to that of Chovos Ha'Levavos (Duties of the Heart).

JRKmommy ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 3:47 pm

I agree with the Aish review.

OF COURSE positive thinking is important. I wouldn't deny that. However, going beyond that to believe that we have absolute power is wrong, for the reasons set out in the Aish review.

I went off on a little rant on other site about a certain website which embrances this whole "we create our reality" business and applies it to childbirth. This lady is honestly convinced that ANY woman can do without prenatal care or any assistance whatsoever in childbirth, since the only risk she acknowledges is fear, bad thoughts and doctors. She also argues that morning sickness is caused by fear/bad thoughts, and that a man could lactate if he really and truly wanted to. Also included in my little rant was the book "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom", which suggests that problems like infertility and multiple miscarriage suggest subconscious ambivalence toward motherhood and an unwillingness to accept one's feminine role.

3 miscarriages, 1 subchorionic hemorrhage and 3 breech babies taught me that I DON'T control the universe, that compassion is a virtue and that "blame the victim" nonsense isn't all nice and sweet and New Age but is actually hurtful and dangerous.

↑ Motek ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 3:58 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

OF COURSE positive thinking is important. I wouldn't deny that. However, going beyond that to believe that we have absolute power is wrong, for the reasons set out in the Aish review.

The Chovos Ha'Levavos is a classic. It says: have bitachon (nothing about having absolute power) in Hashem and by virtue of your trust, you will get what you are trusting Hashem to give you.

↑ JRKmommy ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 5:14 pm

Motek: I'm getting confused. Was your dh disagreeing with The Secret, or the negative Aish review of the Secret?

My view would be that the Jewish way is definitely to believe that prayer, trust and positive thoughts are essential - but also to recognize that the final outcome rests with Hashem, and that the ultimate reasons for an outcome in some cases may be known only by Hashem and cannot be known today by mere mortals. We also have a positive obligation to engage in physical acts, in addition to having the appropriate thoughts, to protect our lives/health and try to realize our goals (so long as both the goals and acts are kosher, of course!).

To use my previous post as an example:
Praying for a healthy child and struggling against depression were both very "Jewish" things for me to be doing. However, I also knew that my actions, alone, weren't controlling the ultimate outcome. I also learned, painfully, that Hashem may have plans for me that include being temporarily denied something that I desperately wanted. Fortunately in my case, I was able to see relatively quickly how a situation could change and how a problem could even become a strength (since I now have children B"H), but for others this could be a much longer and more painful process. For Jews, there is no virtue in putting ourselves at risk to show just how strong our "trust" is. Rather, I see that when I went for medical appointments and testing and c-sections, I was showing through my actions just how important having children was to me.

↑ Motek ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2007, 6:22 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

Motek: I'm getting confused. Was your dh disagreeing with The Secret, or the negative Aish review of the Secret?

My husband was pointing out that the author of the negative Aish review was disagreeing with the Chovos Ha'Levavos!

Quote:

My view would be that the Jewish way is definitely to believe that prayer, trust and positive thoughts are essential - but also to recognize that the final outcome rests with Hashem

The Chovov Ha'Levavos says otherwise. See Shaar ha'Bitachon.

↑ JRKmommy

Tue, Mar 06 2007, 10:54 am

Motek: Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the Chovos Ha'Levavos? Where and when is it from, and who follows it?

I obviously can't debate a source that I don't know, but I thought the idea that everything is ultimately in the hands of Hashem was pretty basic. I can understand that faith/trust/prayer/"positive thinking" can have an effect on Hashem's plans for us - but the ultimate power still rests with Hashem. If our prayers are answered, perhaps it was the intention all along that a temporary difficulty would cause us to desire something more and show greater faith and engage in more prayer, and therefore when this is done it was always the intention that the difficulty would be removed. I remember reading an article "Prayer Babies" on chabad.org, which to me illustrates this line of reasoning.

As mere mortals, our whims don't control the universe. Hashem doesn't HAVE to do something, merely because we want it. Rather, we believe that what Hashem does is good. If we want something for purely selfish reasons, or if we want something that is immoral, or if we want something today simply because we are not capable as mere mortals of seeing the big picture - Hashem is not compelled to do that which would not be "good". "The Secret" doesn't make that distinction. There's a big focus on material gain, and it's not balanced by a discussion of our responsibilities.

↑ Motek

Thu, Mar 08 2007, 11:01 am

Quote:

Chovos ha-Levavos (Hebrew: חובות הלבבות, English: Duties of the Heart), is the primary work of the Jewish philosopher Bahya ibn Paquda, full name Bahya ben Joseph ibn Pakuda. Ibn Paquda was a Jewish philosopher and rabbi who seemly lived at Saragossa, Spain, in the first half of the eleventh century.

It was written in Judeo-Arabic (but in Hebrew characters) approximatelly in 1040 under the title Kitab al-Hidāya ilā Fara'id al-Qulūb, Book of Direction to the Duties of the Heart, sometimes titled as Guide to the Duties of the Heart, and translated into Hebrew by Judah ibn Tibbon in the years 1161-80 under the title Chovos ha-Levavos. (wikipedia)

It is accepted by one and all.

Quote:

I thought the idea that everything is ultimately in the hands of Hashem was pretty basic.

that's the statement in the Gemara, "all is in the hands of heaven, except for fear of heaven"

If you'd like to read something that explains this:

Quote:

Bitachon is not merely the faith that G-d has the potential to bestow good [upon a person] and save him from adversity. Instead, [it implies that] the person trusts that G-d will actually do this. And his trust is so absolute that he is serene and does not worry at all. As Chovos HaLevavos states: "The essence of bitachon is the serenity of the person who trusts. His heart relies on the One Whom he trusts that He will do what is best and most befitting with regard to the matter he trusts in Him."

go here:

http://www.sichosinenglish.org.....4.htm

twinkltoes

Mon, Aug 27 2007, 8:06 am

My husband and I have watched the whole thing. My Mom watched it first and it blew her away. She was totally wowed by it and says it's changed her life too.

It really turned me off.

The beginning with the DaVinci Code-like opening and such was extremely attractive and intriguing but being the skeptic that I am I was sniffing for something "off". I can swallow the "think positive" message but I thought it was very telling that everyone in that movie was telling us to "think positive" mostly about material things, jewelry, cars, money, etc. That really really bothered me.