People, don't dis the third person thing. It really is a minhag b'Yisrael and still being done in the yeshivos. Possibly schools too. I have a European friend, also early middle aged, who did it in school. (Ruchel, you're rapidly losing Europei'ishe cred ) (Please understand, I'm just joking. I understand that there is not a monolithic European type though there are stereotypes. Just as Friedasima's expanding our horizons too )
(Oh, and I still haven't been able to access pp. 149 -151, so my apologies.)
People, don't dis the third person thing. It really is a minhag b'Yisrael and still being done in the yeshivos. Possibly schools too. I have a European friend, also early middle aged, who did it in school. (Ruchel, you're rapidly losing Europei'ishe cred ) (Please understand, I'm just joking. I understand that there is not a monolithic European type though there are stereotypes. Just as Friedasima's expanding our horizons too )
(Oh, and I still haven't been able to access pp. 149 -151, so my apologies.)
I wasn't dissing at all. I have cousins who do this; they are raised with such a beautiful chinuch and have all turned out so well. Of course, it doesn't work well in a vacuum- you need a certain attitude and hashkafa to go with it. I speak to rabbanim in the third person; I assumed this was a given.
Not dissing the 3rd person thing, but not "getting it", either! My third-generation North-American-ness is showing, I guess! Because if I ever asked my father "Would Daddy like to have some more soda?", he would have snarked, "Why don't you ask him? Oh, wait...." By that time, we would have been in hysterical laughter mode and would have riffed off this all evening, I.e., "Would Cat Girl like her brother to change the channel in the middle of her favourite program to watch Maple Leaf Wrestling?" "Would Kid Brother like a huge knuckle sandwich?" "Would the children like to be severely punished?" "Would everyone pleeeeeeease stop talking like this?" Yeah, that's probably how we would have done it. And I would still be laughing if my son, who proudly inherited the Snark Gene, would have addressed me in the 3rd person.
People, don't dis the third person thing. It really is a minhag b'Yisrael and still being done in the yeshivos. Possibly schools too. I have a European friend, also early middle aged, who did it in school. (Ruchel, you're rapidly losing Europei'ishe cred ) (Please understand, I'm just joking. I understand that there is not a monolithic European type though there are stereotypes. Just as Friedasima's expanding our horizons too )
(Oh, and I still haven't been able to access pp. 149 -151, so my apologies.)
I wasn't dissing at all. I have cousins who do this; they are raised with such a beautiful chinuch and have all turned out so well. Of course, it doesn't work well in a vacuum- you need a certain attitude and hashkafa to go with it. I speak to rabbanim in the third person; I assumed this was a given.
I haven't posted on this thread at all - just read -
Enjoy! This is such a fun thread. Maybe it should be published as a sequel in one of the Jewish women's magazines. There's a lot to learn from here.
Or maybe this thread should be published as a book for lecturers and mechanchim and who not to read. It can be good study material for those wanting to learn about women, their arguing styles, the difference of living locations, age, yiddishkeit and more.
Yup, that's it, Kitov. I also find this a fascinating thread - so many subcultural aspects, and I am amazed by the number of things we all take as "absolutes" which are so different from everyone else's "absolutes". I can only imagine how much I will have learned by the time this thread reaches 2000 pages (by which time the original prospective campers will be starting their own families!
Rabbanim, third person? Never heard this. Would never do this.
My dh has heard it, very rarely, always in public and a bit as a show "will rav X do a dvar tora now?".
He says it's already much more common to kiss a rav's hand if he is a gadol, the rebbe of a group or very very old. Someone "special". People who kiss all rabbanim, in his experience, are more superstitious than frum. I once was waiting in line to get a bracha from a rebbe. The lady before me, old North African lady, shomer mitsvos, put on a scarf for the occasion, you see the type, bent and tried to take his hand! He JUMPED! while his secretary shooed her out. OMG lol. Dan lkaf zechus, she had no idea it was wrong, and there were rabbanim who did it in North Africa.
Don't worry, we are very deeply European, both. Deep deep roots, and very proud of them
Not dissing the 3rd person thing, but not "getting it", either! My third-generation North-American-ness is showing, I guess! Because if I ever asked my father "Would Daddy like to have some more soda?", he would have snarked,
We can take any ensuing machlokes offlist, or start a new thread, but I'd like to point out that I think I was the first person to use snark as a verb.
We can take any ensuing machlokes offlist, or start a new thread, but I'd like to point out that I think I was the first person to use snark as a verb.
And I'm finally caught up! Till the next time.
Good catch, PinkFridge. Actually, I've been using the word "snark" for years, but it came back into my repertoire from another board I hang out at, where a certain TV character is nicknamed The Snarkster. As incentive to carry on here, that thread currently has 5982 pages. Colour me inspired!
OK back to this thread from the spinoff thread which is rapidly getting tiring. This is much more fun.
Wow the third person business is so common here. I remember being taught here in sem (Israeli sem for me) that you ALWAYS speak to ALL your teachers in the third person. ALL our teachers, male or female were third person. And in my children's elementary and high schools all teachers were always referred to as third person.
Speaking to a teacher: "Aval hamorah amrah" "But the teacher said".
Totally absolutely normal. And every rov here is spoken to in the third person. Always. Never "ata amarta" but "Harav Amar" (The rov said).
And with parents you don't say "daddy" that's not respectful!!! You say "the father" "the mother". Does the mother want somehing to drink? is what you ask your mother!!! It sounds MUCH better in yiddish which is the original. "Vilst di mameh eppis zu trinken?"
Gee, I thought everyone was brought up like that. In most DL schools throughout EY that's normal parlance when speaking to rabbonim, teachers and principals!
FS these days in MMD schools the teachers on up to the principal are addressed by their first name. I'm not sure about the Rabbis in elementary. In Yeshiva, a Rav is Harav.
OK back to this thread from the spinoff thread which is rapidly getting tiring. This is much more fun.
Wow the third person business is so common here. I remember being taught here in sem (Israeli sem for me) that you ALWAYS speak to ALL your teachers in the third person. ALL our teachers, male or female were third person. And in my children's elementary and high schools all teachers were always referred to as third person.
Speaking to a teacher: "Aval hamorah amrah" "But the teacher said".
Totally absolutely normal. And every rov here is spoken to in the third person. Always. Never "ata amarta" but "Harav Amar" (The rov said).
And with parents you don't say "daddy" that's not respectful!!! You say "the father" "the mother". Does the mother want somehing to drink? is what you ask your mother!!! It sounds MUCH better in yiddish which is the original. "Vilst di mameh eppis zu trinken?"
Gee, I thought everyone was brought up like that. In most DL schools throughout EY that's normal parlance when speaking to rabbonim, teachers and principals!
And with parents you don't say "daddy" that's not respectful!!! You say "the father" "the mother". Does the mother want somehing to drink? is what you ask your mother!!! It sounds MUCH better in yiddish which is the original. "Vilst di mameh eppis zu trinken?"
Gee, I thought everyone was brought up like that.
Nope, not everyone spoke Yiddish at home. In fact, neither my brother nor I ever learned any Yiddish as kids. As a result, Yiddish syntax, which is not the same as English syntax, was not part of our vocabulary. In fact, it's incorrect in English, our first language. In my frame of reference, it's incredibly awkward and smacks of the patronizing tones that health care providers use to address the infirm. "Would Mommy like some apple juice" was cringe-worthy both to my late mother and to myself. Half the time, she'd snark, "I can answer for myself!" at the same time I'd be responding, "Why don't we ask her directly? She's capable of deciding for herself!"
) (Please understand, I'm just joking. I understand that there is not a monolithic European type though there are stereotypes. Just as Friedasima's expanding our horizons too 
)
