It's not a Chabad kaytana. It's a moetza camp but the Rabbi is Lubavich, or at least his balanit wife is. I think he is too. Anyway, what kind of trips and activities for 5-6 year olds would make it worth 540 nis?
I have no trouble with Lubavich camp. In fact, my kids went a few times to those in the U.S. However, I don't think this will be much different than a backyard camp. Girl counselors etc.
In my opinion, what makes a camp worth the money is how much a particular child needs to be in said program. The family's shalom bayis can't be priced.
My son with special needs in in an expensive sleepaway camp in upstate NY. The one relatives are paying for. Or so we thought, till they emailed me the bill.
In my opinion, what makes a camp worth the money is how much a particular child needs to be in said program. The family's shalom bayis can't be priced.
My son with special needs in in an expensive sleepaway camp in upstate NY. The one relatives are paying for. Or so we thought, till they emailed me the bill.
OY.
We don't need camp. They can kill each other here for entertainment, then do it again the next day. Honestly, it's no so bad otherwise I wouldn't have posted the opinions that I did.
Oy. I can't believe this is still going on.
Okay, here's the way I see it:
Yenta is not Golda, and Golda is not Yenta.
Yenta will never understand Golda until she's BEEN Golda, and Golda will never understand Yenta until she's BEEN Yenta.
So if Yenta needs camp and Golda doesn't see the need, they can talk themselves blue in the face, but neither one will really see the other's veiwpoint UNTIL SHE'S BEEN THERE.
GRACE, I don't have a landline yet, so no DSL, and typing on this mini keyboard on the cell phone with my thumbs is a major pain - physically! It gives me migraines and muscle cramps! So I won't be active on Imamother for the next month or so... Anywy I'm Bh 90% unpacked and the new place is incredible. I Finally live ina spotless house, and the extra, large space is having a wonderful behavioral effect on the kids too. Amazing what a difference living conditions makes on every aspect of a person's life!!
GRACE, I don't have a landline yet, so no DSL, and typing on this mini keyboard on the cell phone with my thumbs is a major pain - physically! It gives me migraines and muscle cramps! So I won't be active on Imamother for the next month or so... Anywy I'm Bh 90% unpacked and the new place is incredible. I Finally live ina spotless house, and the extra, large space is having a wonderful behavioral effect on the kids too. Amazing what a difference living conditions makes on every aspect of a person's life!!
Enjoy your new house, sounds great.
We're going to miss you around here.
So the other day I went to Brooklyn to visit my MIL with the kids. Afterwards, I had a playdate with a friend and 3/4 of her kids.
We went to a park on Ave Y and Bedford. Beautiful shady park, great slides, climbing things, swings etc....and a sprinkler/spray park area. Plus, there were soccer fields, a track and handball courts. That park can satisfy kids of all ages.
If its far from you, make kids walk. That's part of the adventure. I make my 22 month old walk everywhere. Its good for him AND tires him out.
There is also Pier Six that my friend just told me about. (http://www.brooklynbridgeparknyc.org/the-park/pier-6-open) I've never been but she said its fantastic.
There is Marine Park. There is the local mall. Coney Island. There are plenty of free things to do. The subway and bus system are your friend, even if its tough to do. I can do it with 3 under 4, and if your kids are a bit older, it should be a bit easier.
I don't buy the Brooklyn argument.
Now I'm not going to respond about ME personally, but you understand that the reason many women are SAHMs because they have to STAY AT HOME and get their work done! Yes, running a house is work. Not everybody has 4 kids, many, especially lots of Brooklynites, have (super) large families. They need good, big suppers, tons of daily washing and folding laundry, cleaning the house, etc. Do you know that most Brooklyn and lots of NY suburban supermarkets accept phone orders? And do you know why? Because many SAHM have full day schedules and don't have the spare time to spend roaming grocery aisles.
All day park adventures with kids? Save that for chol hamoed when there's no school and the fathers are home to lend a hand. And if it would be fun to add a little twist to this thread, let me tell you, some chassidishe cheders offer "chol homoed cheder"!!!! It's a 3 hour program, everyday chol hamoed, with melamdim leading it. Everyday there's a program, ranging from wathing a play, going on a trip, watching the twins from France, presentations, and entertaining guest speakers. Why the need? Same reason. For large families, chol hamoed is super beehive busy, with all the cooking for the schooless kids and yom tov, so many mothers stay in even on chol hamoed. I remember my mother never joining us on our excursions.
GRACE, I don't have a landline yet, so no DSL, and typing on this mini keyboard on the cell phone with my thumbs is a major pain - physically! It gives me migraines and muscle cramps! So I won't be active on Imamother for the next month or so... Anywy I'm Bh 90% unpacked and the new place is incredible. I Finally live ina spotless house, and the extra, large space is having a wonderful behavioral effect on the kids too. Amazing what a difference living conditions makes on every aspect of a person's life!!
Doesn't chazal say something about a nice, roomy apartment and harchavas hadaas?
My parents insist that a big house is not a luxury.....
Ok so I will take other examples: when we go on Sunday, we see many big families doing outings. Two weeks ago we went pic nic and we saw a family with seven kids (very rare here though getting less rare). They asked if we had a keli for netilat yadaim LOL. Apart from that it seemed very easy for them?
Ok so I will take other examples: when we go on Sunday, we see many big families doing outings. Two weeks ago we went pic nic and we saw a family with seven kids (very rare here though getting less rare). They asked if we had a keli for netilat yadaim LOL. Apart from that it seemed very easy for them?
Was the father there? Because as I posted, most men here that I know work on Sundays, and I can in no way see a mother doing this solo, AND have her housework done.
My mother bought us a moon walk, a swing set and tons of other stuff so we could have fun WHILE being home and WHILE she WORKED as a homemaker.
Yes the father was there. Most people here do not work on Sunday.
Among my friends where both work in the couple, from what I know they manage the chores in the week as much as possible to free the Sunday, or at least every other Sunday. By some the house is still clean, by others... no. But it seems a high priority to enjoy at least half of Sunday/a few Sundays a month for family outings.
1) Large families - you are talking about 10 kids or so I presume. But all 10 can't be under age 5. So "large families" also have big kids who can be in charge of the small kids leaving mommy to take care at most of 2 small kids on her own. That's how "large" familes here in EY go on outings, to the park, to the safari, to the beach, and everyplace else. How come here they manage to go out and do these things all the time and not just sit home with 10 kids?
2) Puritan ethics - all sounds like a lovely theory, but...it doesn't explain how the same expectations of yidden doing a lot more than just a bit of "hishtadlus", but rather making educated, well thought out choices - in Germany of 1870, no puritans around and no puritanical background, and in France of 1850 and in Vienna of 1890 and even in Cracow of 1920 (will explain the dates in a moment) you had exactly the same expectations of Yidden as what is being quoted in America as if it came from American Jews "tasting" or "nibbling" the Puritan ehtic.
I for one don't buy it one bit. Why? Because you had no puritan ethic in all those countries and Jews WERE asked if they were beggars why they hadn't gone to study something, why they were having so many children (there was ALWAYS abstinence and more people practiced it than one would normally believe), and so on and so forth. No puritans around, no America, but exactly the same expectations.
Why?
Because there was choice. The minute that yidden lived in a country which ALLOWED them the choice of going to school (unlike where or when they had been totally forbidden to go to university) then the question came up why aren't they studying something that will give them a good income?! And the same went for WHERE they were living the minute that they weren't confined to ghettos. And the same held true as soon as they were living among a society that was using some kind of family planning, particularly from the 1920s onwards but again, before that there was abstinence. The non jews around them were religious catholics and protestants and yet they were doing their best to plan out family and therefore the Jews were also expected to follow suit, particularly as they were citizens, and were given the same rights and responsibilities as the local soceity.
Hence the dates - in France since Yidden got equal rights in 1789 (sefaradim) and 1791 (ashkenazim, right Ruchel?), in Germany since the new German State in 1870-1, and in other countries since emancipation. Poland after WWI etc.
It has to do with the CHOICES that a Yid suddenly has due to EMANCIPATION, and nothing to do with Puritanism otherwise it would have only been in America. But we find that long before America, the same questions were asked of yidden elsewhere in any country that becames a free so called democracy and gave them equal rights.
So I would say rather look at emancipation and not at puritanism. Has nothing to do with aping the [gentile] but rather with the fact that the Yid could finally live and make his living like a mensch with equal rights instead of living in the ghetto without secular education and not by choice.
In my opinion, what makes a camp worth the money is how much a particular child needs to be in said program. The family's shalom bayis can't be priced.
My son with special needs in in an expensive sleepaway camp in upstate NY. The one relatives are paying for. Or so we thought, till they emailed me the bill.
HR when one is asked to donate over and over for the Jewish people but some of these Jewish people have made choices over and over that mean that the only way to keep them alive is to donate, and the number of the Jewish people making these "donate to keep me alive" choices is growing...then it's time for the Jewish people and particularly those who are always being asked to donate to help everyone take a good long look at what is going on to see what can be done about it .....other than to create a society that is going to live forever on handouts and only grow.
Because that can't last.
And when it explodes, which it will, we, at least those who are donating, don't want to see a goodly portion of the Jewish people disintegrate.
Because often "disintegration" is accompanied by people making a choice to walk. From Yiddishkeit. It has happened before. We would like it not to happen again.
Isramom, I agree with the "ouch".
Did your relative specifically say that she/he was paying or did you just infer that from something? Meaning was this a promise that she backed down on or a misunderstanding?
Whatever, it's not a great situation.
Hence the dates - in France since Yidden got equal rights in 1789 (sefaradim) and 1791 (ashkenazim, right Ruchel?)
I had never heard of this! I'm finding 1791 on French sites.... how weird...
In Paris in 1789 there was already a big mix of Ashkenazim, Sefardim and "Oriental" Jews... and already many "mixed" marriages between them... how did it go?
In Alsace almost only Ashkenazim, in Bordeaux a mix with mainly Sefardim, in Provence/Comtat Venaissin a big mix, same in Provence...
I'm finding in 1787, two categories of Jews are voted equal:
Those living in Avignon (which would include Ashk)
"Portuguese" Jews - I am not sure how it was defined? Portuguese origin? if yes, how recent (Marranos vs those who left early)? I find explicitely that the non Portuguese origined Sefardim refused the label, and in another place that they still davened there as opposed to the Yekke rite. Not clear.
Another source says Jews in Bordeaux had equal rights just before the Revolution...
While not being a royalist, I must acknowledge some studies were opened to Jews already, and the last king opened a lot more "brevets" to them...
In my opinion, what makes a camp worth the money is how much a particular child needs to be in said program. The family's shalom bayis can't be priced.
My son with special needs in in an expensive sleepaway camp in upstate NY. The one relatives are paying for. Or so we thought, till they emailed me the bill.
OY.
We don't need camp. They can kill each other here for entertainment, then do it again the next day. Honestly, it's no so bad otherwise I wouldn't have posted the opinions that I did.
I'm impressed that your older boys are willing to look after the younger ones while you are away.
My DD has one more week of kaytana. I paid 500 for a total of 5 weeks with several trips and a lot of nice activities. But this is a kaytana from her special ed school. DS is starting a 10 day job from 8-1 on Sunday. Later in August he has a 4-5 day basketball camp which he claims is free but somehow I doubt that.
