IMNSHO, what MB described, and she described it another time as well, is more like year-round school, with a little bit of play mixed in because its summer.
There are a lot of frum schools with that kind of "camp." And it does make it very confusing when discussing camp.
Mama Bear's not the only one who's described something like that, I think a couple other posters mentioned that "camp" in their area is led by the same rebbes who teach in school, and with the same kids participating.
Yes, my kids attend a similar style camp.
I think that's different. Then it's more like a 10th month of school. While technically optional, I can see how it'd be much more upsetting to a child to be left out of 1/10th of the school year, than to just not get all the experiences his/her friends do (eg. not traveling when "everyone" does).
In Israel some schools have something like that, but it's not optional.
It strikes me as kind of odd to make it optional. Why split it into "school" and "(school) camp," why not just come straight out and call it another month of school, albeit a fun summer month? Is the school camp open to non-students? Or do only a small number of the usual students take part?
IMNSHO, what MB described, and she described it another time as well, is more like year-round school, with a little bit of play mixed in because its summer.
There are a lot of frum schools with that kind of "camp." And it does make it very confusing when discussing camp.
Mama Bear's not the only one who's described something like that, I think a couple other posters mentioned that "camp" in their area is led by the same rebbes who teach in school, and with the same kids participating.
Yes, my kids attend a similar style camp.
Way back when I was a kid, and dinosaurs strolled the earth, *most* camps were owned or organized by teachers. Its what a lot of them did with their summers. I wasn't raised religious. I went to a traditional day camp where you played sports, swam, went boating on the tiny lake, did arts and crafts, dancing and (don't laugh) archery and riflery. And the owners were two teachers. They owned an overnight camp as well. So the fact that a camp is run by rebbes wouldn't lead me to believe its more like year round school.
Way back when I was a kid, and dinosaurs strolled the earth, *most* camps were owned or organized by teachers. Its what a lot of them did with their summers. I wasn't raised religious. I went to a traditional day camp where you played sports, swam, went boating on the tiny lake, did arts and crafts, dancing and (don't laugh) archery and riflery. And the owners were two teachers. They owned an overnight camp as well. So the fact that a camp is run by rebbes wouldn't lead me to believe its more like year round school.
Right, but some camps are not only run by rebbes, but run by rebbes using the same year-round school space, and with the "campers" being primarily or exclusively students of the school.
I went to traditional camp too (from age 9 or so), but I only got to go near the archery range once. Probably for the best.
IMNSHO, what MB described, and she described it another time as well, is more like year-round school, with a little bit of play mixed in because its summer.
There are a lot of frum schools with that kind of "camp." And it does make it very confusing when discussing camp.
Mama Bear's not the only one who's described something like that, I think a couple other posters mentioned that "camp" in their area is led by the same rebbes who teach in school, and with the same kids participating.
Yes, my kids attend a similar style camp.
I think that's different. Then it's more like a 10th month of school. While technically optional, I can see how it'd be much more upsetting to a child to be left out of 1/10th of the school year, than to just not get all the experiences his/her friends do (eg. not traveling when "everyone" does).
In Israel some schools have something like that, but it's not optional.
It strikes me as kind of odd to make it optional. Why split it into "school" and "(school) camp," why not just come straight out and call it another month of school, albeit a fun summer month? Is the school camp open to non-students? Or do only a small number of the usual students take part?
Many schools have day camp for 3 weeks in July. It is not mandatory, because the State doesn't require it, and it costs extra. In my kids' school, most of the student body attends. 8th graders who graduated weren't keen on attending, so the school made then helpers who attend only for trips and certain activities. The camp is open to outsiders on a selecetive basis.
Only in my son's special education cheder was day camp not optional. A friend pointed out that some of these kids would be rejected from regular day camp, so this way they were guaranteed to attend one.
If someone is becoming frum, so that's not a choice for them any more than for an FFB. Once you believe that mitzvot are commandments you don't say "gosh I dunno, can I afford to do this?" more than anyone else.
I do think that paying for your own frum needs (tefillin, shiurim, etc) is a sign of being serious about the whole thing. But sometimes even the most serious people honestly can't afford it.
Yes. A number of people here are opposed to the idea of not having more children for purely financial reasons. (I'm uncomfortable with it myself.) How much more dreadful would it be, though, for a non-observant Jew to be turned off teshuvah for purely financial reasons?
IMNSHO, what MB described, and she described it another time as well, is more like year-round school, with a little bit of play mixed in because its summer.
There are a lot of frum schools with that kind of "camp." And it does make it very confusing when discussing camp.
Mama Bear's not the only one who's described something like that, I think a couple other posters mentioned that "camp" in their area is led by the same rebbes who teach in school, and with the same kids participating.
Yes, my kids attend a similar style camp.
I think that's different. Then it's more like a 10th month of school. While technically optional, I can see how it'd be much more upsetting to a child to be left out of 1/10th of the school year, than to just not get all the experiences his/her friends do (eg. not traveling when "everyone" does).
In Israel some schools have something like that, but it's not optional.
It strikes me as kind of odd to make it optional. Why split it into "school" and "(school) camp," why not just come straight out and call it another month of school, albeit a fun summer month? Is the school camp open to non-students? Or do only a small number of the usual students take part?
it's probably optional because many families go away during the summer.
Now that this thread has hit 55 pages, I thought I would jump in. (50 pages is my minimum)
I just wanted to hear from those that seem to be implying that kids are at risk for going OTD if they don't go to camp. Are these already at-risk kids? Because I can't imagine that one summer at home is going to turn a kid if he's not already at risk. What happened to the chinuch from the rest of the year? What is going to happen over the summer that will wipe out years of learning and home chinuch as well?
Shockingly enough, I barely ever went to camp as a kid. I spent two summers in non-Jewish (!) day camp run by private schools in the area. I participated in all the activities, everyone brought their own lunches, and on rare occasions there was a bbq or something, we brought our own. There were a couple of other frum kids there, and I davened at home before leaving, etc.
Other summers I took classes at the local public (!!!) school, an art class, touch-typing, chemistry. I even made some friends, expanded my mind and world view and... didn't go off the derech. Imagine that.
I know many people who grew up barely knowing they were Jewish and today they are leading frum lives.
However none of us are advocating bringing up our kids like that.
Also, chinuch should not be a one size fits all. Some kids will do great going to sleepaway camp, for others it might be a negative experience. Others might indeed do better going to a non Jewish science camp.
Way back when I was a kid, and dinosaurs strolled the earth, *most* camps were owned or organized by teachers. Its what a lot of them did with their summers. I wasn't raised religious. I went to a traditional day camp where you played sports, swam, went boating on the tiny lake, did arts and crafts, dancing and (don't laugh) archery and riflery. And the owners were two teachers. They owned an overnight camp as well. So the fact that a camp is run by rebbes wouldn't lead me to believe its more like year round school.
Right, but some camps are not only run by rebbes, but run by rebbes using the same year-round school space, and with the "campers" being primarily or exclusively students of the school.
I went to traditional camp too (from age 9 or so), but I only got to go near the archery range once. Probably for the best.
The building facilities is the same, many of the teachers are the same, most of the kids are the same. Same buses as well. As I said, the boys learn in the morning, have lunch, and then are split up into bunks and an older boy counselor is hired to play sports with them for the afternoon. They do little else. A trip once a week. Our camp doesn't have a pool so the younger ones splash around in wading pools and the older ones borrow time from a community pool once, maybe twice a week.
It's simply a program to keep kids in a good system where they'll daven and learn for a good part of the day and have a little fun in the afternoons. (My oldest hates sports, he'd rather come home after lunch.) Camp starts the Monday after school ends, and ends the week before school starts.
Btw, our principal hates that the kids have such a long summer and always plans to lengthen the school year.
Many people here are being very judgmental. Strangely, many are the same people who cry sinas chinam and “who are you to judge!” when anyone claims that certain actions are not halachically permissible. Do you know everybody’s circumstances, Madams judge, jury, and executioner? While I admit to thinking critical thoughts about the actions of others at times also, the level of self-righteousness here makes this sound almost like satire.
I can't believe so many of you went to day camp. I worked in the coal mines all summer
And I'm not underestimating the difficulties. There's a heat advisory in NYC today. I wouldn't suggest a 2-hour bike ride, or a basketball tournament. Then again, unless you're sending your kids to overnight camp, the day camps are facing the same heat issues. I saw a lot of kids in the park at 7:30 or 8, working off energy before it got too hot out.
Uhhhh what??? ever heard of air conditioning??? the kids are in large, spacious, cool, airy, delicious rooms. Theyre playing games, eating lunch, davening, learning, making arts n crafts, GOING TO THE POOL IN THE SCHOOLYARD(which they would not have at home!!! 1/2 of the homes do not have porches!), and so forth. what heat issues???
Camp is indoors? In air conditioned spaces?
I thought that the whole argument in favor of sending kids to camp was so that they could spend time outdoors, running around and participating in activities. Most camps have indoor spaces, for use in the rain. But camp that's primarily indoors?
DAY CAMP is inside school buildings. How on earth can day camp be held outdoors? where? how? where do the kids sit? where are their bathrooms? lunch rooms? I'm confused here. Day Camps are inside school buildings. They go on weekly trips, they play in their school yards, they have pools in their yards. How can you keep kids outdoors all day in this crazy heat? that's the whole point of day camps.
Sleepaway camp has outdoor and indoor spaces; there's a casino and dining room and so forth. But a regular day camp is inside a school building.
DAY CAMP is inside school buildings. How on earth can day camp be held outdoors? where? how? where do the kids sit? where are their bathrooms? lunch rooms? I'm confused here. Day Camps are inside school buildings. They go on weekly trips, they play in their school yards, they have pools in their yards. How can you keep kids outdoors all day in this crazy heat? that's the whole point of day camps.
Sleepaway camp has outdoor and indoor spaces; there's a casino and dining room and so forth. But a regular day camp is inside a school building.
Not all day camps are like in Williamsburg!!!
In many areas, especially in Monsey, there are backyard daycamps. Owned privately, some are for multiple grades, some are for one age group specifically. There are picnic tables, lots of outdoor activities, swimming, trips and such.
In today's day and age, specially in NYC, none of us are sending a grade school aged kid on their own to do things sponsored by the local library or the Fresh Air Fund, for lack of a better way of describing typical City events. Specially with non Kosher food there.
Yes, as kids some of us went to Recreation and others of us went to Girl Scout Camp. Today no one does that stuff.
HavingItAll wrote:
How much more dreadful would it be, though, for a non-observant Jew to be turned off teshuvah for purely financial reasons?
Maybe I shouldn't admit it, but BIL is. I think he would be frum otherwise. But he can't condone a lot of what we do.
And I'm not underestimating the difficulties. There's a heat advisory in NYC today. I wouldn't suggest a 2-hour bike ride, or a basketball tournament. Then again, unless you're sending your kids to overnight camp, the day camps are facing the same heat issues. I saw a lot of kids in the park at 7:30 or 8, working off energy before it got too hot out.
Uhhhh what??? ever heard of air conditioning??? the kids are in large, spacious, cool, airy, delicious rooms. Theyre playing games, eating lunch, davening, learning, making arts n crafts, GOING TO THE POOL IN THE SCHOOLYARD(which they would not have at home!!! 1/2 of the homes do not have porches!), and so forth. what heat issues???
Camp is indoors? In air conditioned spaces?
I thought that the whole argument in favor of sending kids to camp was so that they could spend time outdoors, running around and participating in activities. Most camps have indoor spaces, for use in the rain. But camp that's primarily indoors?
DAY CAMP is inside school buildings. How on earth can day camp be held outdoors? where? how? where do the kids sit? where are their bathrooms? lunch rooms? I'm confused here. Day Camps are inside school buildings. They go on weekly trips, they play in their school yards, they have pools in their yards. How can you keep kids outdoors all day in this crazy heat? that's the whole point of day camps.
Sleepaway camp has outdoor and indoor spaces; there's a casino and dining room and so forth. But a regular day camp is inside a school building.
IMNSHO, what MB described, and she described it another time as well, is more like year-round school, with a little bit of play mixed in because its summer.
There are a lot of frum schools with that kind of "camp." And it does make it very confusing when discussing camp.
Mama Bear's not the only one who's described something like that, I think a couple other posters mentioned that "camp" in their area is led by the same rebbes who teach in school, and with the same kids participating.
Yes, my kids attend a similar style camp.
I think that's different. Then it's more like a 10th month of school. While technically optional, I can see how it'd be much more upsetting to a child to be left out of 1/10th of the school year, than to just not get all the experiences his/her friends do (eg. not traveling when "everyone" does).
In Israel some schools have something like that, but it's not optional.
It strikes me as kind of odd to make it optional. Why split it into "school" and "(school) camp," why not just come straight out and call it another month of school, albeit a fun summer month? Is the school camp open to non-students? Or do only a small number of the usual students take part?
that is what most brooklyn posters are talking about. my son's school doesn't have a camp but the 3 other schools do run camps and they have students from other schools.if he went to camp he would go to one of them.
my 4 year old is in a 12 month program- preschool with swimming
there are fancier camps in brooklyn that have a sports program or do more activities, they are more camp like. they are also based in schools.
summer is from mid June until labor day in September =11 plus weeks
some families go upstate, or go away. there isn't a wealthier neighbor hood. everyone lives together some in building 7 kids in a 2 bedroom and no outdoor space and other kids live in houses that go for 600,000 and up.
and I did spend part of a summer in a west Virginia coal mine
OMG, she wasn't referring to a gambling casino..lol. In many camps, casinos is called the huge building where all activities are done!!! There's a stage, bleachers, yadda, yadda........
