Mama Bear -
First off, glad to hear your new arrangement is working well.
Secondly - I think it's not just that your son has special needs, but that when you describe "an outing to the park" it's really "an outing to the park plus dealing with social obligations plus planning an event with a child in tow."
I think I'm capable of taking care of my kids all day, but I wouldn't be if I tried to do everything you were doing. When I spend the day with all the kids, that's pretty much all I do. I may take a few minutes to sit and drink coffee and go on email and imamother in the morning, and I may manage another half hour to an hour of housework, but nothing beyond that. No phone calls lasting more than two minutes (and few that are even 2 minutes), no going shopping except once a week to the grocery store and perhaps a 5-minute stop somewhere once a day, no stopping to chat to people unless they have kids my kids' ages with them. Etc.
So yeah, now I get why you'd be exhausted at the end of the day.
What I am advocating is Jewish women continuing to have the children they want to, and organizations continuing to subsidize day camp.
How long is that sustainable? If you are advocating that every Jewish family have as many children as they possibly can, irregardless of the family's ability to support the children financially or emotionally (I'm not clear if you're advocating the latter or not), then where does the money to subsidize come from? Virtually every family will be stretched to its financial limit.
Why is that your concern? A relative's guests once totally started in on me for sending my high school age sons to yeshivos that do not teach secular studies. Their indignant reasoning was that "the system will collapse in 50 years". I really felt like saying, "What the heck do you care? You'll be dead by then."
Of course I care what will happen in 50 years. Thats what building a nation is all about!
Your whole premise is that we need to build Am Yisrael. I don't think its a good idea to build an Am Yisrael that is going to implode.
We do our part; Hashem does Hashem's. Did the gedolim say to start limiting the number of our children because there is a serious danger of the Klal imploding?
We do our part; Hashem does Hashem's. Did the gedolim say to start limiting the number of our children because there is a serious danger of the Klal imploding?
I don't believe in relying on miracles. We are not doing our part if we do not have any plan that exists "bderech hateva".
I didn't say you have to limit your children...maybe you have to limit your "necessities" or plan to increase your income. For example, the takanos of the Gerrer (?) Rebbe regarding spending on weddings and engagement rings doesn't limit the number of children but it decreases (significantly) the cost per child.
We do our part; Hashem does Hashem's. Did the gedolim say to start limiting the number of our children because there is a serious danger of the Klal imploding?
I think that this is the different world view that underlies this discussion.
To me, we are not doing our part if we're not always looking to the future, always considering our next step, always thinking about how we will sustain things.
Right now, I'm not just thinking about how we'll pay the bills this month. I'm thinking about how I will pay this month, and tuition for the next several years, whether we'll be able to afford camp next year, whether spending the money for me to join a gym, which we can afford today, will impact upon what we are able to do in 6 months, savings for college, retirement, and how much we can spare if my father needs financial assistance from us. I think that's what we have to do as adults. And that's what we need to teach our children to do as they grow up.
We also have to consider the future of our communities, and the future of our planet. We can't use up our natural resources, and we can't pollute our planet, thinking that it will all take care of itself in the future.
IMNSHO, not looking to the future, wanting that instant gratification of *I want it now, I don't care if I can afford it, or what impact it has on the future of my family, the community and the world* is a very selfish and childish way to live.
We do our part; Hashem does Hashem's. Did the gedolim say to start limiting the number of our children because there is a serious danger of the Klal imploding?
To me, we are not doing our part if we're not always looking to the future, always considering our next step, always thinking about how we will sustain things.
One can try and plan based on one's best assessment on the situation but we can't know. There will always be both parts: we do our best to assess the situation, but within halachic boundaries, and trust in G-d. That does mean accepting what G-d has in store for us. THAT can be hard.
Barbara wrote:
We also have to consider the future of our communities, and the future of our planet. We can't use up our natural resources, and we can't pollute our planet, thinking that it will all take care of itself in the future.
True. But that is in Torah. Don't waste. Take just what you need. Help others who don't have what they need.
Barbara wrote:
IMNSHO, not looking to the future, wanting that instant gratification of *I want it now, I don't care if I can afford it, or what impact it has on the future of my family, the community and the world* is a very selfish and childish way to live.
BUT I think that what you might consider "I want it now" and what someone else considers "I want it now" may not be the same things. Some things you consider vital may to another person be a luxury (sure if you can...) while some things that others determine are vital are to you luxuries.
This is my main point. We need a certain amount of trust in others, a certain degree of belief that what they say regarding their needs may be true. Because we can get along without it doesn't mean another can. To state that is to not accept the person as an individual.
I did finally realize lately that I am going to have to restructure my Sundays, since Mendy will IYH be home on Sundays for the foreseeable future (unlike other boys his age who are in cheder on Sundays.) The trouble is I have no food left over by Sunday since I do my food shopping on Wednesday. I'll have to figure something else out so that I dont have to do any shopping on Sunday & leave it for Monday. that does mean I lose a day - my Monday - , but Sunday will have to be devoted to him.
I NEVER have to go to the grocery on Sunday for food. Why can't you just buy a week supply of food Wednesday? Chicken and meat can be kept in the freezer long term. Lukshen and rice and potatoes and melons hold fine for a week plus. Why restock twice a week?
This is my main point. We need a certain amount of trust in others, a certain degree of belief that what they say regarding their needs may be true. Because we can get along without it doesn't mean another can. To state that is to not accept the person as an individual.
You just summed up all my posts. Thank you, HindaRochel!
I did finally realize lately that I am going to have to restructure my Sundays, since Mendy will IYH be home on Sundays for the foreseeable future (unlike other boys his age who are in cheder on Sundays.) The trouble is I have no food left over by Sunday since I do my food shopping on Wednesday. I'll have to figure something else out so that I dont have to do any shopping on Sunday & leave it for Monday. that does mean I lose a day - my Monday - , but Sunday will have to be devoted to him.
I NEVER have to go to the grocery on Sunday for food. Why can't you just buy a week supply of food Wednesday? Chicken and meat can be kept in the freezer long term. Lukshen and rice and potatoes and melons hold fine for a week plus. Why restock twice a week?
Maybe there isn't enough room in her freezer for that many perishable items?
Even if you food shop on Monday, it cannot possibly take up your whole day unless you're cooking and shopping for more than just 4 people. And even if did take up your whole day, well wasn't that whole exciting thing - that you can now run errands in peace by yourself every day?
I did finally realize lately that I am going to have to restructure my Sundays, since Mendy will IYH be home on Sundays for the foreseeable future (unlike other boys his age who are in cheder on Sundays.) The trouble is I have no food left over by Sunday since I do my food shopping on Wednesday. I'll have to figure something else out so that I dont have to do any shopping on Sunday & leave it for Monday. that does mean I lose a day - my Monday - , but Sunday will have to be devoted to him.
I NEVER have to go to the grocery on Sunday for food. Why can't you just buy a week supply of food Wednesday? Chicken and meat can be kept in the freezer long term. Lukshen and rice and potatoes and melons hold fine for a week plus. Why restock twice a week?
Maybe there isn't enough room in her freezer for that many perishable items?
While I agree that the main marketing can be done once a week, I'm guessing that the issue is that MB doesn't have a car, which makes it more difficult to lug home a week's worth of groceries.
Are there no other simpler ways to get the same accomplished? Or is life in williamsburg in such a way that they physically require you to run around and dont let things get done via fax, phone, or internet?
Ha ha, just the thought of seeing williamsburg stores selling slips and long sleeve modest clothing and vulene tzitzis and kosher bakeries makes me smile.
Are there no other simpler ways to get the same accomplished? Or is life in williamsburg in such a way that they physically require you to run around and dont let things get done via fax, phone, or internet?
Ha ha, just the thought of seeing williamsburg stores selling slips and long sleeve modest clothing and vulene tzitzis and kosher bakeries makes me smile.
Banks usually arent heimish, even in Williamsburg (right?) and can be done online. Other stuff via fax, no?
And how often do you need to buy clothing? Why should you need to buy clothes more than once a season, or twice max in case something happens?
I haven't checked out MB's errand list yet, I'll scan it in later.
I personally don't think anyone has to excuse themselves on their personal life, on why things need to be erledigt once a week or more. And I wouldn't want to have to answer that either.
See, but I cat do that all summer; all the errands dont get done by themselves. All the shopping doesnt get done by itself. I spend an average or 9 or 10 hours a week on street errands and about 10 hours a week on important phone calls.
Why do you have so many errands to run all the time? Can you consolidate your food shopping? How often do you need to shop for other things like toys, clothes, shoes, or whatever? That shouldn't be more than once a season...
I run errands probably for 3 hours every 2 weeks or so, with an occasional additional thing like a doctors appointment or whatever. Where are you always going? Phone calls don't work? I do my banking via the internet, give permission for various things via fax or the phone or whatever, don't need to run places to sign things.
Why are you always running around? Are there no other simpler ways to get the same accomplished? Or is life in williamsburg in such a way that they physically require you to run around and dont let things get done via fax, phone, or internet?
I agree - but maybe it's because MB is now moving that there is a lot of extra errands/ calls.
I do very little through the internet - just paying arnona (municipal taxes) and taxes for my business (BL and ma'am). I don't buy anything over the internet. I do a major grocery shopping usually once a week, and sometimes stock up on some last minute things again on a Thursday (okay, true I have older children I can send to the makolet for a bag of milk or eggs if we run out). But how often do I do other shopping like clothes? Maybe once a month or two I need a few items of children's clothing or someone needs their shoes replaced - I guess that not being in the shops much helps to be frugal .
I don't do much over the internet either other thank banking stuff, money transfers, checking balances... and paying phone and internet bills. Most stuff is over the phone.
I did finally realize lately that I am going to have to restructure my Sundays, since Mendy will IYH be home on Sundays for the foreseeable future (unlike other boys his age who are in cheder on Sundays.) The trouble is I have no food left over by Sunday since I do my food shopping on Wednesday. I'll have to figure something else out so that I dont have to do any shopping on Sunday & leave it for Monday. that does mean I lose a day - my Monday - , but Sunday will have to be devoted to him.
I NEVER have to go to the grocery on Sunday for food. Why can't you just buy a week supply of food Wednesday? Chicken and meat can be kept in the freezer long term. Lukshen and rice and potatoes and melons hold fine for a week plus. Why restock twice a week?
Milk goes bad by Sunday. orange juice/apple juice etc gets depleted. Snacks get used up; I dont want to buy a boatload of snack food becuase Mendy will just ransack the pantry. So I replenish twice a week. Fruits & veg go bad by Sunday. Etc. etc. etc.
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amother wrote:
As a SAHM, I truly am embarrassed by the depiction of how hard it is to watch kids and get some errands done. As if it takes superhuman powers and time management to go food shopping a couple times a week and throw in some phone calls. Please working mothers, believe me when I say most stay at home mothers cope with the "hardship" of staying at home a lot better. Perhaps the problem is that some mothers actually thoguht they would be staying at home all day??
Coward. Hiding behind amother.
I dont want this thread to become Mama Bear's expose *again*, so I wont go into nitty gritty detail. Suffice it to say that for some people, time management is easier and for some it's a formidable challenge. Some people have all-consuming, overwhelming life challenges that make many simple tasks difficult. I am envious of the mothers of six who manage a mechaya. Good for them. it's really none of your business, and not very nice of you to do this behind amother. Do you knwo me at all? Were you privy to how crazy the last 12 months of my life has been? I'm not even going to bother. I'm just going to ask HaShem to put your post onto the sliding scale of humiliation & hurt I've endured the past while so it helps it tip down...
The people I know with S.N kids often have to hire full time help. And when they go on vacation they go without their SN kid because it is so difficult looking after them. I think it might be hard to understand unless you have been there.
MB, my lifesaver is online supermarket deliverys. Does any supermarket near you do that? Or do stores let you fax/call in orders?
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