To all those complaining about the heat, I live in Miami and we don't find it disabling. Right now, at the end of June, the weather is approximately 90' F in the afternoon, and the humidity is through the roof. It gets hotter in August. Guess what? My toddler spend all morning at the park. You find some shade, you bring lots of drinks, and watch out for overheating. He is perfectly happy, and so is whoever brings him. Early afternoon, you stay indoors eating lunch and resting/doing quiet activities. In the late afternoon, he often goes to the beach or rides his riding toys up and down the block. Heat is not the end of the world, unless you're talking extremes. I lived in Brooklyn most of my life, and it's not nearly as bad as it is here. We all manage.
I'm sorry for questioning why anyone would live in Brooklyn. It just sounded so inhospitable from some of the posts here.
And personally, temperature has a huge say in where I live. I've refrained from moving to certain areas due to the summer heat. Not that where I live doesn't get plenty hot - we've had entire weeks of 100+ degree heat - but if I were truly unable to function due to the heat and humidity, I would look for a different place to live (and have). I couldn't stand being stuck indoors for three months even if the kids were out for the day. So I wasn't trying to say like, "duh, what's wrong with you, just move," it was a real question - if it's that bad, what's the draw? (Here it's different - Beit Shean, for example, is at least very reasonably priced, so I can see the allure).
Tearing toilet paper for 2 hours. Hmm. Firstly, who nowadays doesn't use tissues for Shabbos bathroom trips?
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Um. Us? Should I say we tear toilet paper for all three bathrooms and put it in the "Shabbat Toilet Paper Baskets"? Or will people feel sorry for me that we don't use tissues.... Cutting toilet paper is a traditional kid getting-ready-for-Shabbat job.
Tearing toilet paper for 2 hours. Hmm. Firstly, who nowadays doesn't use tissues for Shabbos bathroom trips?
.
Um. Us? Should I say we tear toilet paper for all three bathrooms and put it in the "Shabbat Toilet Paper Baskets"? Or will people feel sorry for me that we don't use tissues.... Cutting toilet paper is a traditional kid getting-ready-for-Shabbat job.
Tearing toilet paper for 2 hours. Hmm. Firstly, who nowadays doesn't use tissues for Shabbos bathroom trips?
.
Um. Us? Should I say we tear toilet paper for all three bathrooms and put it in the "Shabbat Toilet Paper Baskets"? Or will people feel sorry for me that we don't use tissues.... Cutting toilet paper is a traditional kid getting-ready-for-Shabbat job.
And how long does it take them?
about 10 minutes. (15 if we have guests)
I rest my case.
(Sorry, Friedasima, we're not ganging up on you but I just wanted some empirical evidence.)
In some communities, sending kids to daycamp is the norm. Everyone sends, just like school. If someone cant afford it they get a break or scholarship.
I find it interesting how in the thread about a woman managing without air conditioning over shabbos, everyone unanimously told her that she is not spoiled and that a/c is a necessity, not a luxury. Why? Many of us grew up without a/c and we turned out just fine. Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
Tearing toilet paper for 2 hours. Hmm. Firstly, who nowadays doesn't use tissues for Shabbos bathroom trips?
.
Um. Us? Should I say we tear toilet paper for all three bathrooms and put it in the "Shabbat Toilet Paper Baskets"? Or will people feel sorry for me that we don't use tissues.... Cutting toilet paper is a traditional kid getting-ready-for-Shabbat job.
And how long does it take them?
about 10 minutes. (15 if we have guests)
I rest my case.
(Sorry, Friedasima, we're not ganging up on you but I just wanted some empirical evidence.)
In some communities, sending kids to daycamp is the norm. Everyone sends, just like school. If someone cant afford it they get a break or scholarship.
I find it interesting how in the thread about a woman managing without air conditioning over shabbos, everyone unanimously told her that she is not spoiled and that a/c is a necessity, not a luxury. Why? Many of us grew up without a/c and we turned out just fine. Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
IIRC, she was late in a difficult pregnancy, the weather was very hot, and she had a/c at her home. Under those circumstances, it certainly wasn't spoiled of her not to want to leave her home, to go somewhere else, without a/c.
She wasn't suggesting that EVERY person needs a/c, or that even if she couldn't otherwise pay rent, tzedaka should be used to buy her an a/c and pay for the electric to run it. But I'll say, a/c isn't a necessity for everyone. Its a wonderful thing, especially for very pregnant women. But not a necessity.
Tearing toilet paper for 2 hours. Hmm. Firstly, who nowadays doesn't use tissues for Shabbos bathroom trips?
.
Um. Us? Should I say we tear toilet paper for all three bathrooms and put it in the "Shabbat Toilet Paper Baskets"? Or will people feel sorry for me that we don't use tissues.... Cutting toilet paper is a traditional kid getting-ready-for-Shabbat job.
Whoever really wants to cut toilet paper (and by the way, frum companies have been manufacturing special Shabbos toilet paper for years) can use a scissors to get the task done faster. I'm sure my kids would figure this out if they were forced to tear two squares at a time. (When my son had to write "I will not be chutzpadig to the rebbe" 200 times, he attempted to use the copier on the fax machine.)
Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
But that's the whole point. WHY do people think a normal, healthy SAHM mother's emotional well-being is on the line if she has to LOOK AFTER HER OWN CHILDREN for a few weeks???
You know, I'm wondering if some women here don't have it backwards. If you are a SAHM all year and you have burn out by the summer, to the point where you have to send your own children to an orphanage aka sleepaway camp because you can't bear to have them around, then maybe you just shouldn't be a SAHM at all. Work during the year in a chinuch-related job so you'll get the summer off, and then you'll enjoy being with your children and not be burnt out - not when they're in school, but when they really need you when they're at home.
Whoever really wants to cut toilet paper (and by the way, frum companies have been manufacturing special Shabbos toilet paper for years) can use a scissors to get the task done faster. I'm sure my kids would figure this out if they were forced to tear two squares at a time. (When my son had to write "I will not be chutzpadig to the rebbe" 200 times, he attempted to use the copier on the fax machine.)
my kids prefer all the pieces to be the same size, so they insist on doing it by hand (3 sq. at a time)
In some communities, sending kids to daycamp is the norm. Everyone sends, just like school. If someone cant afford it they get a break or scholarship.
I find it interesting how in the thread about a woman managing without air conditioning over shabbos, everyone unanimously told her that she is not spoiled and that a/c is a necessity, not a luxury. Why? Many of us grew up without a/c and we turned out just fine. Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
It's about affording. I grew up without a/c and was pg with #1 in August in Israel without a/c - even in the hospital room! We couldn't afford a/c and that was that. To this day, there are plenty on Imamother Life in Israel without a/c. I can name three off the top of my head. Not that they don't want it; they can't afford to run it. So they live with physical discomfort. I have a/c and can afford to run it yet choose not to because a/c is really a luxury and once you get used to it, you can't live without it and then it runs up crazy bills paid for with money that is really best used elsewhere. I am not pg but I am in my small, unairconditioned kitchen right now cooking for Shabbat with a fan blowing. It's working. OP has an a/c in her house, and she pays the bills. It's her standard. She's not asking me to fund it. How is that like asking for money for camp? I don't get the connection.
Regarding getting over my illness: thank you for asking. It's leaning more towards pity at this point. Pity that people are so wrapped up in themselves and so defensive about what they are doing and the decisions they are making that they can't have a rational discussing without crying abuse and judgement. It's a sad state of affairs. I so wish you young mothers could have met my friends and me about 25 years ago. We taught each other how to manage.
I also want to know if all the bleeding heart SAHM who think that it's okay to beg for money for camp because it's not a luxury realize that some people are sending their children to non-Jewish schools because they can't afford that luxury. There is just so much tzedaka money to go round. Don't you think it should go to the tuition needy first?
Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
But that's the whole point. WHY do people think a normal, healthy SAHM mother's emotional well-being is on the line if she has to LOOK AFTER HER OWN CHILDREN for a few weeks???
You know, I'm wondering if some women here don't have it backwards. If you are a SAHM all year and you have burn out by the summer, to the point where you have to send your own children to an orphanage aka sleepaway camp because you can't bear to have them around, then maybe you just shouldn't be a SAHM at all. Work during the year in a chinuch-related job so you'll get the summer off, and then you'll enjoy being with your children and not be burnt out - not when they're in school, but when they really need you when they're at home.
It's not burn out. During the year your kids go to school for a few hours! Not only does it get them out of the house and keep them occupied, but it provides a structured life for the whole family.
When you base your life on a certain pattern, and that changes to NO outside activities for the kids, it's very challenging. The mother still has to do everything she does when the kids are in school. only, they're hanging around whining, arguing and hot.
It's a tired myth to believe that SAHMs do nothing all day. Women who work outside their homes generally have workers who do what the typical SAHM does all day by herself. Summer vacation interferes with the sane schedule the SAHM has created.
Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
But that's the whole point. WHY do people think a normal, healthy SAHM mother's emotional well-being is on the line if she has to LOOK AFTER HER OWN CHILDREN for a few weeks???
You know, I'm wondering if some women here don't have it backwards. If you are a SAHM all year and you have burn out by the summer, to the point where you have to send your own children to an orphanage aka sleepaway camp because you can't bear to have them around, then maybe you just shouldn't be a SAHM at all. Work during the year in a chinuch-related job so you'll get the summer off, and then you'll enjoy being with your children and not be burnt out - not when they're in school, but when they really need you when they're at home.
Yes! Why is everyone ignoring this point? If being a SAHM makes you so burned out that you can't deal with your kids when they are home from school, why are you a SAHM? You're not! You're a stay-at-home-only-when-my-kids-are-not-home-mom!
Regarding school tuition taking priority for tzedaka contributions, school and camp tuition should be a single category, not viewed as two separate needs.
Seeing what my friends go through, I have thought about trying to raise funds for all our kollel families to be able to send all their kids to kaitana. But alas, I have to choose what to raise for, and I didn't choose this cause.
Doesn't everyone's kids cut toilet paper for shabbos? but I go back to my example, if you give them a knife and tell them to cut the roll down the middle like some people do, take out the cardboard and put it in the basket it can take three or four minutes per roll and then you are done sawing through.
but we like it really neat. Including the kids.
So go and get them to tear off only two sheets at a time, fold them and place the folded sheets one on top of the other in a basket neatly placed. If they are tearing ten rolls of paper, which let's say is a shabbos norm, and doing it neatly and at the same time listening to music on a casette (yeah we still have those around here) or on radio kol chai if it's morning (nice music from 9 to 10 except Fridays, used to be 9 to 11, even my co workers got used to my having it on in the background unless we had clients) it can take an hour, maybe not two. Now what eight year old has sitz fleish for an hour? They don't. They stop and come to the kitchen to get a glass of water and a cookie, then they have to wash their hands from the crumbs, and they talk to you during those ten minutes break and then back to cutting paper for another fifteen minutes and then another break and another glass of water and then a third break and bathroom and it all takes time. They also go into a different mode when they know that there is tons of time, no pressure etc.
The point is that there are lots of household based activities which even small children can be involved in to help. Once upon a time it used to be called "chores". I always hated that word. But it can definitely be made into fun.
Go bake with your kids. Make a yeast dough, let them punch and punch at all ages and get out their aggressions. Teach them to make pizza dough. Invest in a pizza stone and spend an entire morning making pizza with your kids for lunch, the real kind, with toppings. Use only a drop of yellow cheese to keep costs down.
Here's another thing. Give your kids a sponja rag, dampen it and put them down on the floor in play clothes, let them clean the floors of the house balata by balata. Kids LOVE playing with water, make sure they don't use too much and then give them a clean rag to buff each tile. Will take an hour at least per room. One room a day. Four room house? That's four days of cleaning done.
Contests - who makes the drawing that will go on the shabbos table, a shabbos drawing. Who makes the drawing that week that will go on the fridge, who makes the drawing that will go on the door to the shower and who makes the drawing that will go on the kitchen door? That's another hour of fun including setting up, and choosing which goes where and putting them in place.
Creativitiy - ever think of reading your little kids a story and talking about it? That can be half an hour a day and you can do it while you are nursing if you nurse in front of your small children.
Teach your kids to dance. Put on a tape of a waltz and teach them to waltz. Tons of fun for little kids. girls with girls and boys with boys ("real dancing" as my kids call it) of course!
Teach your kids to do acrobatics.
Take a gym mattress set it on the floor, if you dont have room like we didn't we would push the table to the side of the room and set it up there. Everyone does somersaults, splits and long jumps. Indoors where the fan or the a/c is. they wait their turn and do it one after the other. Another half hour of fun.
Watch a ten minute youtube of Tarastiles yogs with your girls and take out the mat and spend a half hour doing yoga with them. Have your boys watch the men's equivalent of tai chi and kung fu positions and practice. - that's another half hour of fun.
Yeah it requires strength, it requires creativity, and sometimes a bit of funds. And if you are nursing a two month old on demand all summer and have four kids under eight besides that and can't get out of your nursing chair for more than ten minutes at a time until you have to go back and nurse, or if you are so attached parenting that you have to have the baby on you at all times, negating the possibility of your using the stove or doing yoga or anything else I dont know what to tell you....except wait for next summer when the baby is 14 months and will probably try to do yoga for babies along with the older kids.
Why is a mothers physical comfort considered a necessity, yet her emotional/mental comfort is considered a luxury?
But that's the whole point. WHY do people think a normal, healthy SAHM mother's emotional well-being is on the line if she has to LOOK AFTER HER OWN CHILDREN for a few weeks???
You know, I'm wondering if some women here don't have it backwards. If you are a SAHM all year and you have burn out by the summer, to the point where you have to send your own children to an orphanage aka sleepaway camp because you can't bear to have them around, then maybe you just shouldn't be a SAHM at all. Work during the year in a chinuch-related job so you'll get the summer off, and then you'll enjoy being with your children and not be burnt out - not when they're in school, but when they really need you when they're at home.
Yes! Why is everyone ignoring this point? If being a SAHM makes you so burned out that you can't deal with your kids when they are home from school, why are you a SAHM? You're not! You're a stay-at-home-only-when-my-kids-are-not-home-mom!
Yeah, and not to continue the mommy wars, but I know working moms who keep their year-round babysitters during the summer too. So stop judging SAHMs for supposedly not being there. Working moms get to go to work. SAHMs have their kids buzzing in their heads 24/7 during vacations, if they aren't in camp.
I noticed something relaly striking: all of the women who are shaking their heads and cant undrstand the 'sense of entitlement' live in EY!! tamiri. marion. shalhevet. seraph. friedasima.
So you know what? this discussion isnt even handed at all.... it's almost laughable to debate all of you!!
I don't get your point at all. Why isn't it even handed? Why can't someone from EY say it's possible to look after 2 kids for a few weeks without ending up in the loony bin? You think our kids don't get dirty or fight or we don't have to cook or do laundry? I really don't get why it is relevant where we live. The reason we are all from EY (actually there are others who aren't) is because we know it's the reality that mothers here don't send their kids away all summer (and many, including me, don't use any computers or computer games for the children and we manage fine without sticking them in front of a DVD which seems to be a given on imamother) and we haven't been taken away by the men in the white coats yet.
(Oh, for the record, my boys are in cheder except for bein hazemanim, one dd is going to BY kaytana which is half-day for the first 2.5 weeks and the older girls have the BY activities I mentioned earlier. And I'm a WAHM.)
because you have great outdoors. because you hae a great bus system. becuse you have nice weathers most of summer. try doing all that wit the typical gray london rainy days, for instance. kids in israel go out to play. you have playgrounds EVERYWHERE. it's a laid back lifestyle. it's very different.
Mama Bear, not every city has great outdoors things for kids. Not every city has great bus systems, and most definitely not the entire country has wonderful weather, at all. Ill give you an example. My sister used to live in Ramat Gan. I went to visit her (before I got married) we had to sleep in our skivvies because it must have been over 100 degrees and there was one little fan on the wall. it was crazy, so no, the weather is not wonderful everywhere. Where I live now, a city, yes, there are beautiful parks, but, and it is a major but, it is so hot during the hours of lets say 10 - 5 that nobody goes to the parks, its just too hot, so during those hours, the weather really stinks, big time.
Freidasima, we do a lot of those things, but my kids need that PLUS outside activities. I don't know if that's the norm, or if my kids are just doubly needy as far as stimulation and creativity. I do know that teachers always comment about how much they know from home. That doesn't mean they are capable of staying home 24/7 for 9 weeks.
let's shake on that - us, too
