Taking Care of Children - a Spiritual Activity?

Motek ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 12:02 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

Since when did taking care of our children stop being a spiritual activity for a Jewish woman?

My impression is that most women do not think that diapering, bathing, feeding and shopping for their children are spiritual activities.

Maybe we need to define "spiritual activity". Anybody care to try?

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 12:40 pm

GR wrote:

am I wrong to think that changing diapers has the same importance as teaching brochos?
its all chinuch.

hmm

You would probably entrust a high school with diapering your baby. Would you entrust her to be mechanech your child?

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:01 pm

Quote:

You would probably entrust a high school with diapering your baby.

oh goodness, it depends who!

Quote:

Would you entrust her to be mechanech your child?

if its the same high school girl as above, then yes, I would trust her to teach a bracha too.

dleah

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:03 pm

Quote:

You would probably entrust a high school with diapering your baby. Would you entrust her to be mechanech your child?

many high school and seminary girls are main teachers or assistants in nurseries, preschools and elementary schools.

are there any sources for considering diapering etc to be a mitzva ? I don't know of any.

suomynona

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:08 pm

I don't think the issue is so much whether it's spiritual or not. It depends on your definition of the word spiritual.

The issue is whether this is our tafkid or do we need to learn/go to shiurim in addition to taking care of children?
I went to a very intellectual sem - learning for the sake of learning. When I was single I listened to tapes and attended shiurim. But there is a time and place for everything. That was all preparation and secondary to my job now which is to be a mother. I don't feel I am missing spirituality because I don't have time to learn.
I think there's a benefit if a mother can learn, especially hashkafa and practical halacha. They will enhance what she is doing now. And if someone doesn't keep up with anything spiritual, there's the danger of becoming more and more materialistic and out of touch with yiddishkeit.
But if I had the money, I would not pay someone to be my housekeeper so I could go out to shiurim. That is just not my tafkid now.

roza ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:14 pm

I tried to do search on wikipedia for it and ended up with Waldorf Education LOL

Anyway, I guess, it's like eating - spiritual activity- avoidas habiurim, karbonos etc.
but how many ppl practically eat that way?
Do most ppl think of 'eating' that way?

Are u asking on practical level or philosophical level?

Practically, I think, most ppl are too busy to think about it.

↑ gryp

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:17 pm

Quote:

are there any sources for considering diapering etc to be a mitzva ? I don't know of any

I see diaper changing as twofold- not only does the baby need to be changed, but it also needs to learn what it means to be clean.
so I am also teaching cleanliness at the same time, which is definitely part of chinuch, although I dont know if you can find a direct source for teaching cleanliness, but neither is there a direct source for teaching brachos.
"Vishinantam Livanecha" I think includes all chinuch, no?

Yael

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 2:38 pm

would you call the following scenario spiritual?

a girl hears of a family that needs help. she goes to the house to offer her help. she opens the door, and an awful smell overpowers her. the place is dirty, the kids are filthy, the dishes have old food rotting on them, the garbage is overflowing. she goes in and starts cleaning up, bathing the kids, brushing their hair, changing them, finds them clean clothing,
washes the dishes, takes out the garbage, sweeps the floor, and prepares a nice supper for the family.

then she goes home and tells her mother about what a mitzva and chesed she did for the family.

how is what we do on a regular basis any different?

Inspired

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 2:43 pm

If the kohen's splattering blood, cleaning up blood, pouring wine, baking bread, etc. was holy so is our avodah. I'm not making the comparison up. The home is called the mikdash me'at. It is more than chessed itr is holy avoda.

shalhevet ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 2:55 pm

dleah wrote:

are there any sources for considering diapering etc to be a mitzva ? I don't know of any.

It is pure chessed.
The baby certainly can't do it for themselves.

I think sometimes it is hard to remember as we are looking after our house and taking care of our children that it is spiritual. We are doing chessed all the time, and chessed inside the home is on a greater level than outside the home.

There is a time and a place for everything. Of course it is great if women can go to a shiur, BUT they shouldn't feel that this is a great spiritual thing as opposed to their real tafkid in life. Of course it can be important - to recharge us spiritually/intellectually , so we'll have the emotional strength to continue; to learn halacha/ hashkafa particularly for those who didn't have the chance before they were married/mothers etc. But a shiur for women is a means, rather than an end.
Saying Tehilim/ learning is great if it is instead of reading a novel or (dare I say it?) being on imamother Very Happy

, but not if it's instead of talking to our children or taking care of them.
So, let's all try and have more kavanna for all the chessed we have a chance to do every day.

↑ shalhevet ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 2:56 pm

Inspired wrote:

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 3:19 pm

Yael wrote:

how is what we do on a regular basis any different?

I think that issues are being confused. Either that, or I'm confused.

Cleaning, cooking etc. whether for your children or someone else's children is a chesed.

Are you (and others) saying that chesed=spiritual?

What about this - I have read and heard that it is very important to get household help. So tell me, if you clean the house, it's spiritual. What about if the Polish or Mexican lady cleans your house. Is that spiritual for them?

roza wrote:

Practically, I think, most ppl are too busy to think about it.

I think roza is on to something here. If you're too busy or distracted to think about your home being a miniature mikdash and your work in the home as the avoda of the kohanim, is what you do spiritual regardless? Or only if you have that intent?

Because, well, what would you call the cooking and cleaning and diapering that non jews (l'havdil) do? Spiritual?

goldrose

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 3:47 pm

Quote:

What about if the Polish or Mexican lady cleans your house. Is that spiritual for them?

no, its not spiritual for them, it's livelihood for them. if it was a jew cleaning your house for her livelihood, it would be spiritual.

a cleaning lady cleaning my house is spiritual for me, since it allows me to do the other things I need to do.

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 3:56 pm

goldrose wrote:

no, its not spiritual for them, it's livelihood for them. if it was a jew cleaning your house for her livelihood, it would be spiritual.

Why no for one and yes for the other?

Quote:

a cleaning lady cleaning my house is spiritual for me, since it allows me to do the other things I need to do.

How does allowing you to do other things "make it spiritual" (and what does "make it spiritual" mean?)?