Teen girl getting married off early

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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Ruchel ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 1:43 pm

Motek wrote:

southernbubby wrote:

Even bummy boys want virtuous girls!

And they often get them, with or without the girls knowing what they've done Mad

One of my pet peeves........ (the contrary, bad girl with nice boy, is horrible too of course).

↑ Ruchel ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 1:44 pm

Motek wrote:

Quote:

having a kosher outlet for her raging hormones

do you really buy that "raging hormones" bit? Confused

Whatever happened to self control? Confused

↑ Ruchel ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 1:47 pm

MommyLuv wrote:

sometimes (with the right guy etc) a girl who's been around the block experimenting with inappropriate behavior will grow up very fast after being married

The right guy? If he is like her I doubt they will influence each other for good. if he's a good guy, sorry but he deserves a good girl too... As for kosher outlet, I doubt someone who has not been able to not "experiment" will be able to keep TH for example...

chen ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 2:50 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I doubt someone who has not been able to not "experiment" will be able to keep TH for example...

which would you prefer for your daughter if she ( ch"v- to- the- nth- power-you-shouldn't-know-from-such-a-thing- I- don't- even- like- to- say- it- but- I -didn't- bring- up- the- topic) were "experimenting": that she marry the boy she's experimented with and settle down to some sort of life even if they do not observe TH--or that she continue "experimenting"?

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 3:07 pm

Marriage is no joke.

shalhevet

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 3:22 pm

We once asked a rav about suggesting a shidduch to two totally non-religious individuals and we were told it's assur to suggest if they won't keep TH because it's machshil them. (They were quiet "nice" types. I don't know if we would have got the same answer if they were "experimenting")

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 3:49 pm

before I met my husband, I was in a serious relationship with someone else - we (unfortunately) did a lot of "experimenting". embarrassed

B"H my husband and I have never had any difficulty with TH.

↑ DefyGravity ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 4:00 pm

Ruchel wrote:

MommyLuv wrote:

sometimes (with the right guy etc) a girl who's been around the block experimenting with inappropriate behavior will grow up very fast after being married

I know lots of people that weren't so well-behaved before marriage, but they went to kallah classes, and keep some semblence of T"H (I can't say for certain how much they keep, because it's none of my business).

My point is that many people may be wild before marriage, but once they are in a serious union, it matters to them that they do things right. They come to a realization that what they do with their life really matters, and that being lax in certain areas can result in serious repercutions.

Obviously, this isn't a blanket statement. Everybody is different. People that were totally shomer negiyah before marriage might have a hard time keeping (or completely neglect to keep TH) and vice versa.

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 4:02 pm

I imagine that the engagement period is a serious one, then.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 4:49 pm

What exactly is a "Bummy" girl? It sounds like a horribly derrogative term - is it supposed to be? Or is it some new Yeshivish lingo that I don't know about?! A bum to me is either slang for a touchus, or a slang derrogatory term for a homeless person (usually male).

How does any of this relate to the poor lost or confused soul of young girl from a frum family, who needs our help?

JMHO.

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 4:49 pm

I assume that people think they're protected by anonymity. I do not think it's a valid excuse to use it to hurt people.

And that's why, TMI or not, I NEVER POST ANONYMOUSLY.

↑ MommyLuv ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 5:08 pm

ditto...

I dont understand the underlying judgemental tone of this thread. pple acctually do make mistakes!! and regret them! I know so many pple who had relationships as teenagers that ranged from online boyfriends to actual physical stuff....and it was a nisayon that was too hard for them...and they eventually grew out of it, got their act together, got married, and live wonderful respectable frum lives. why is there no tolerance or understanding for something like this?? a girl can make one bad choice or mistake, and then when she wants to come back she has an awful reputation and is the talk odf the town.. for all the outreach that happens these days (BH) there has gotta be more inreach too...

btw, messing up in one area-even such an imp. one as tznius b/w the sexes-does not mean that the offender is messed up all around. in todays world, its very very hard for teens not to get into a bit of trouble.

and hey-is a girl (or a guy) has a past that included promiscuity, and they then shaped up, at least you know about it when they are ready for dating!! its public knowledge-you know what ur getting if u marry someone who has been around... unlike so many other things that are all hush-hush in the frum communitym, like a past that inncludes mental illness-which I think is way worse in lots of cases. I know its a bad comparison, but it bugs me the way pple hide imp. info about a prospective shidduch.

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 5:16 pm

Yes.

Exactly.

She has a long way to go, and if she gets married now, I just fear for her..........

↑ MommyLuv ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 5:30 pm

look, I wish her luck. if she has other big issues besides for the sleeping around, then its a big problem and she does need to fix that. marriage wont! I was just venting about a double standard I sometimes see.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 6:26 pm

chen wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

I doubt someone who has not been able to not "experiment" will be able to keep TH for example...

Marry the guy she experimented with as long as he is Jewish. But I would feel bad marrying her to a good boy - although since she would be my daughter I would not prevent her from marrying him...

↑ chen ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 6:57 pm

SaraG wrote:

Marriage is no joke.

I wasn't joking; that was a bona-fide question. which would you prefer?

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 7:18 pm

OY. I guess I'll be making that decision won't I, the way my kids are doing.....

↑ chen ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

Ah, you must be a Brit.

webster's new world dictionary: Bum: 1. a shabby, often drunken derelict 2. any shiftless or irresponsible person, loafer, idler, etc.

IOW, a low-life no-goodnik of whom one disapproves. by extension, then, we come to definition 4. an incompetent person, esp. an athlete.

which in turn brings us to the group known collectively as "Dem Bums"--the former Brooklyn Dodgers baseball team (now the LA Dodgers). see www.nycvisit.com/content/index.....y=672 for the history of this appellation.

You are quite right, to describe a person as "a bum" or "bummy" is quite derogatory although not, perhaps, the ultimate in derogation. Strictly speaking, I have never heard anyone who is not jewish use the term "bummy"--nonjews say someone is "a bum".

shmoozer ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 7:42 pm

Nebach. If really feel for this girl and her parents. They must be going through such a rough time. I think that unnecessary intervetion would only make it harder on them. Maybe you should speak to their rav and get him involved. But definitely, we could all daven for them that they get out of their matzav as soon as possible.

↑ chen ↓

Thu, Apr 27 2006, 8:39 pm

SaraG wrote:

she sneaks off to clubs with boys (and I don’t know what else)

(italics mine.)

Right. You don't know what else. Maybe nothing else.

SaraG wrote:

I hear she has been kicked out of at least two chassidische high schools.

aha. you hear. from whom? from her mother? from her? or from some snide, sly, sneaking, sanctimonious saint who never learned the laws of loshon hora?

and if she was, then what? do you know why? does her being kicked out of school, if in fact she was, make her the wh*** of babylon? girls get kicked out for mouthing off to teachers, for violating the dress code, for cheating on exams, and for failing academically. None of which is good and none of which means the girl is doomed to burn.

SaraG wrote:

Last I heard, she was “going out” on shidduchim; guess her parents feel it’s safer to marry her off.

you guess. based on what? seems to me an awful lot of chassidish and yeshivish girls are going on shidduchim in their late teens. do you guess their parents also feel it's safer to marry them off?

SaraG wrote:

It’s not my business

bingo.

SaraG wrote:

She still has so much living and growing to do….

don't all nearly-18-year-olds have so much living and growing to do? do you oppose early marriages, period, or just for this girl because you consider her to be a bum?

this is how you talk about the daughter of "good friends" of yours? Bushoh v'cherpoh.

Last edited by chen on Thu, Apr 27 2006, 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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