Riot In Boro Park | Imamother

soraya ↓

Tue, Apr 04 2006, 10:51 pm

oy vey, does this guy think he's above the law? if the law says not to drive while talking on the cell, well, then the police have the right to ask for your license and registration! Rolling Eyes

there was a case a few months ago in lakewood. the police stopped a frum man, the man refuesed to cooperate and gave them a hard time. Well, of course the police got rough with him. Then the whole city is up in arms about how the police are all anti-semites. puh-leeze! it doesn't matter who your zaide was- in America, we're NOT the baal ha'baatim.

chavamom ↓

Tue, Apr 04 2006, 10:53 pm

Something like this happend in Lakewood recently. I don't get it. If you are frum you don't have to follow the law? And then your friends come out and riot at your arrest? What happend to 'dina d'machusa dina'? It's not like we are living in Czarist Russia where they are being marched off to the gulag - he was getting a ticket for talking on his cell phone and then resisted arrest!

happyone ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 12:25 am

Don't judge by the news...
The guy is hard of hearing, and didnt hear the police tell him to stay in the car, when he opened the door, the police attacked him. The rioting is a major chillul hashem, however, the old guy was completely innnocent and was attacked out of viciousness.

sarahd ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 5:11 am

The story mentions that too. I think the police overreacted - an elderly man (75 years old!), after all, and the police know perfectly well that Boro Park Jews are not violent people. What did they think, he was going to shoot or stab them? Punch them? Please. Read this story, which gives you a better idea of why people were upset. And they protested, not rioted... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04......html

Not that rioting is the proper response either.

↑ chavamom ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 9:43 am

sarahd wrote:

And they protested, not rioted... http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04......html

From the article

Quote:

A routine traffic stop of a 75-year-old Hasidic driver in Brooklyn escalated into a protest last night by hundreds of Orthodox Jews, who surrounded a police station house, chanted "No justice no peace," lighted bonfires and set a police car afire.

I'm sorry, but most 'protests' don't involve setting police cars on fire. That falls in the 'riot' catagory in my book!

goldrose ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 10:07 am

personally, I cant say I would have the guts to protest, but I'm glad that they stood up for themselves. This ticketing business has gotten out of control, especially since they are ticketing only (mostly) Jews, and not doing anything else worthwhile (protection? crown heights!).

As far as fires go, it's not the safest thing to do, but it's not like they set people on fire, or buildings on fire. It was a little biur chometz - just some garbage!

Good for them, kol hakavod that they join together and fight for their rights!!

No Chilul Hashem involved, in my opinion. Kiddush Hashem - Jews will not stand for this behavior. We aren't shmattes, and we wont let you shove us around. They protested very clearly, but not violently with the message: The law is the law (re ticketing the old man), but what happened to this man was violent and not lawful.

hardwrknmom ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 11:34 am

shoy18 wrote:

they had the right to protest, they DID NOT have the right to set fires!!!!!!

I agree with that, however, I think the jewish communities are fed up with the 'ticket blitz' etc.

I respect the police and the dept. They still have to investigate this incident and if it was that those two officers were anti semites and did indeed beat him- they should be rooted out ASAP.

cindy324 ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 11:59 am

Quote:

I agree with that, however, I think the jewish communities are fed up with the 'ticket blitz' etc.

This ticketing business has gotten out of control, especially since they are ticketing only (mostly) Jews, and not doing anything else worthwhile (protection? crown heights!).

Um, I don't know where you guys live, but here in Boro Park people think they can park anywhere anytime anyhow they please! There's a reason why they're ticketing so much! I say that Boro Parkers' lack of respect for parking and driving laws(especially yakking on the cell phones while driving, and my pet peeve--a front seat passenger holding a small baby on her lap,instead of being secured in a car seat,) has gotten out of hand.

These days you can't drive down 13th Ave. without maneuvering through an obstacle course of double and triple parked cars. Please! Not only should they keep on ticketing, they should raise the fines big time, so that maybe one day people will start respecting their fellow drivers .

↑ chavamom ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 12:41 pm

hardwrknmom wrote:

I respect the police and the dept. They still have to investigate this incident and if it was that those two officers were anti semites and did indeed beat him- they should be rooted out ASAP.

I am going to point something out here that may not be popular. The policemen, according to both descriptions did exactly what they are trained to do (as well as in the Lakewood case). They do not look at a frum person and say 'well, he's got a hat, I doubt he's dangerous'. They are trained to treat EVERYONE as if they are potentially armed and dangerous. That policy is lifesaving for policemen. I have worked with MANY wives of policemen (there is something about nurses - they are often married to firefighters and cops) and that is their biggest fear - getting shot during a routine arrest. Yes, you hear about the 'drug bust gone bad', but sometimes they just pull someone over and one thing leads to another. A major no-no when pulled over, you DON'T get out of the carr, you keep your hands visable on your stearing wheel and you follow instructions. This guy didn't remotely follow those rules. Maybe there needs to be some education in the frum velt about 'how to behave vis a vis the police'. I have to say I don't think any investigation would find these policemen at fault (unless they threw him to the ground and started kicking him - which it doesn't appear that is what happends) and I suspect that only someone unfamiliar with police training would see this as a potential 'anti-semitic' incident.

mompete

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 12:48 pm

A policeman also has to use his own sense. Training should also include dealing with older people and the topic of hearing aids should be addressed. I seriously doubt that these cops were worried about their own safety. Ticketing is one thing, manhandling excessively where it is unwaranted is another.

shayna82 ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 12:49 pm

I agree, a lot of times these types of things are labled, "anti semetic" when really it is us jewish people that didnt do the right legal thing. I think its a big chillul hashem, especially how they cliped it on the headlines. and I defint. agree with the poster about driving through boro park. why do jewish people think that they can bend laws and do whatever, then wehen something like this happens, its a huge deal. we have to respect laws like anyone else. how can we expect the government to give us tuition vouchers and th elikie, if this is how we act????????

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Apr 05 2006, 1:12 pm

The police where I live also did a ticket blitz in the jewish neighborhood. They were mad though because we always warned each other that a cop is around and they were not catching as many motorists as they wanted. We had an elaborate notification system, and it worked. They stopped stalking our area. We also had the press involved, showing that nowhere else in this area did they have cops stationed almost round the clock at every stupid stopsign. (and the judges also dismissed/reduced most of the tickets) B"H we now have no problems with the police, they still give tickets... but at least they are being fair.