Ketubah | Imamother

merpk

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 4:06 pm

Ours is hanging. It was done as a gift by a close friend of ours who is a sofer, it's on a klaf and written in the 'style' of a sefer Torah, very simple but very beautiful. When we went to the store to get it framed, there were half a dozen people there and the owner and they all just gathered around and oohed and aahed.

Even got the sofer some new business from that. Smile

We're not Lubavitch, so the Lubavitch minhag is not ours.

Smile

And in re what the ketuba says about our "previous status" (since we are BTs), we know what it says, very clearly, and there's nothing in it to be ashamed of.

It looks lovely, so we like to look at it. It's right near where my candles are.

Smile

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 4:09 pm

Chani wrote:

I heard it said in the name of R. Yosef Soloveichik, ztl. We have one; our rav (at that time) would not permit a chasunah without it.

you have what?
he wouldn't permit a chasana without what?

didan ↓

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 4:31 pm

B"H

I think my DH knows where ours is. I put it away somewhere, but not intending to hide it from him. I never heard of that actually. What's the source for it?

↑ didan ↓

Sun, Feb 26 2006, 4:34 pm

B"H

Crayon210 wrote:

He could destroy it and claim you were never married.

Is that a real concern that people have today (I certainly don't B"H) or is it something that was passed down the generations?

↑ ButterflyGarden ↓

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 2:44 am

BS"D
The official position of the Orthodox Union is not to allow a marriage without a prenuptiual agreement that that is legally binding, stating that the husband must give the wife a get in the case of a divorce.

↑ proudmom ↓

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 7:05 am

Chani wrote:

Motek,

Like RivkaBatya says, our rav (at that time) would not do a chasunah without a prenuptial agreement.

I personally dont agree with the Rabbi. Because why in the world do a wedding with in mind that you might get a divorce. A marriage is suppose to be for a lifetime.

↑ ButterflyGarden ↓

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 7:19 am

Quote:

I personally dont agree with the Rabbi. Because why in the world do a wedding with in mind that you might get a divorce. A marriage is suppose to be for a lifetime.

I agree, however, if you where to ask today's growing agunah population, how many of them thought that they might get divorced and become an agunah before the wedding, I'll bet you'll find very few who said they knew. This is the reason for this new measure. All the document says is that if the couple gets divorced the husband must give the wife a get. By the way, our missader kisushin who insisted on it was my husband's father!!

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 7:56 am

These prenuptial agreements are, IMHO, a good thing. There was a situation in our community where a girl got married, and the husband became physically abusive very early on. He wouldn't give her a get until her parents paid him off (in the six figure range) - basically blackmail. Nobody goes into marriage contemplating divorce, but the reality is that it does happen...

↑ proudmom

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 11:00 am

Quote:

By the way, our missader kisushin who insisted on it was my husband's father!!

your fil made you both sign the agreement? If he did I see that he didnt have that much faith in your husbands decision in marrying you

↑ ButterflyGarden ↓

Mon, Feb 27 2006, 11:08 am

BS"D

Quote:

your fil made you both sign the agreement? If he did I see that he didnt have that much faith in your husbands decision in marrying you

On the contrary, we get along great and I know he thinks highly of me. I was also very hesitant to do this. My father-in-law convinced me to. He said it was for my protection. He raised my husband and knows that he would never leave me without a get (or leave me at all for that matter there would be no one to find his things, or remind him what he was doing, and tell him when it was whom's birthday Wink

). However, he showed me that the only thing it did was make it possible for the state to enforce the ruling of the beit din.

↑ Motek ↓

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 7:06 am

Seems only the M.O. world has adopted the prenuptial agreement. I haven't heard that this is done in the yeshivish-chasidishe world.

I found this though I haven't verified that this is in fact his view though it would explain why many groups do not use the pre-nup:

Quote:

preeminent halachic authority Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv has stated that prenuptial agreements are contrary to halacha.

According to Rabbi Elyashiv, the husband’s agreement before the wedding is invalid because he does not expect to divorce. That makes the husband’s agreement to pay the fine unenforceable, and a court that tries to enforce it is engaging in unlawful coercion.

and here is an article about Agunos and halacha

http://www.torah.org/learning/......html

TzenaRena

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 7:58 am

proudmom wrote:

Chani wrote:

Motek,

Like RivkaBatya says, our rav (at that time) would not do a chasunah without a prenuptial agreement.

I personally dont agree with the Rabbi. Because why in the world do a wedding with in mind that you might get a divorce. A marriage is suppose to be for a lifetime.

I think this is the Rabbonim's objection to the pre-nup agreements, because if while a person is m'kadesh a wife there is a thought of perhaps (chv) there will be a divorce, it could invalidate the kiddushin.

Motek, did you ever hear of this reason?

↑ ButterflyGarden

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 10:44 am

Motek, my husband and I are "american heradi", you know, yeshivish, black hat. Most def. not MO (not that I'm putting MO down). This has nothing to do with halacha, it just give the secular court the power to enforce the ruling of a bet din if C"V you should need it. Jail is a lot more powerful the a protest.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Mar 02 2006, 12:06 pm

My sister was an agunah (Baruch Hashem she now has a get) and we spent a lot of time looking into the get prenup - she didn't have one. All the prenup does is allow the courts to prosecute the recalcitrant husband, because he is breaking a legal contract. Her life would have been very different had they signed one before the wedding....

I think it is an amazing thing, and if it helps even one out of every hundred people who sign it, it's worth it. I think that the whole issue of it being uncomfortable to sign because we get married assuming it's for the rest of your life is solved if the rav who is mesader kedushin insists on it. If it comes from him, then it's not that either the husband or wife have doubts about the marriage, it's just a precautionary measure that the rabonim are insisting upon.

Ruchel

Wed, May 03 2006, 4:51 pm

We are going to get a copy of ours and hang the copy on the wall, that way the ketubah won't get all weird after some years like many do.