Witchcraft | Imamother

Rivka ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2004, 7:28 pm

This is mentioned alot in the Torah, you have the idol worshippers which were more than what they are now, they would actually gain magic from it. Lavan was one, that was why Rochel took the little things coz she knew he would use them to find them. Then you have the Egyptians, they got their power using astronomy and their source was the Ram which is why Pesach is in that month. We also learn about Shaul who went out killing all the witches, but he used one witch to summon Shmuel. So what has happened to this black magic? Why is it mentioned so much in the Torah, is it just becuase that was what they were like in those days or is it a warning to us for now too?

Motek ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2004, 7:40 pm

there are still forces of evil in the world

Quote:

The residents of the Polotz district were afraid to walk by the home of two gentile witches who lived in their area. They attributed stories of terror and havoc to the witches, whom everybody believed could harness the powers of impurity to do evil.

The Jews of Polotz were especially frightened of the witches for they particularly enjoyed harassing Jews. Any Jew who fell into their clutches was forced to endure tremendous humiliation and degradation. More than anything else, the witches enjoyed forcing Jews to stand bareheaded before them. They took pleasure in coercing them to do acts that went against their conscience and against the Torah.

The famous Chasid, R' Shmuel Munkes lived in this area, but he had never encountered the witches until the summer of 5558 (1798), a short time before the Alter Rebbe was imprisoned. R' Shmuel had checked in at an inn in one of the neighboring villages when he met the pair of witches.

Those who frequented the inn knew R' Shmuel as an exceedingly wise Chasid. They suggested to the witches that it would be a good time to meet one of the great, brilliant Jews of the area.

The witches, relishing the challenge, went to R' Shmuel to debate religious matters. Many people gathered around to hear the debate. The topic turned to magic, and the two witches began bragging about their supernatural powers.

R' Shmuel remained unimpressed. He said that if he wanted to, he could perform far superior magic to anything they could do. The witches were furious at this affront to their abilities, and they began showing off their best tricks. R' Shmuel was unaffected by their feats.

When the witches saw that they were wasting their time, they said to R' Shmuel, "Listen here. If you are really a great witch, let us see whether you can stand up to our magic. This is what we will do. We will take a cup of vodka and give it to someone standing here to verify that it contains no poison. Then we will do our magic and we will see whether you can drink the vodka without being harmed."

R' Shmuel stipulated that after he finished drinking, they would have to drink from the cup he would give them. It was agreed. The witches proceeded to pour vodka into a cup, and someone tasted it and attested that it was perfectly fine. Then the witches went off to a corner, whispered incantations, and presented the cup to R' Shmuel.

R' Shmuel took the cup, made a bracha with tremendous kavana, and drank it. Everyone was certain that something terrible would happen to R' Shmuel but wonder of wonders, he seemed perfectly fine and healthy as though he had drunk an ordinary cup of vodka.

The witches were petrified that they had failed. They certainly did not want to drink the cup of vodka that R' Shmuel gave to each of them. Those standing around however, insisted that they fulfill their part of the deal and forced them to drink.

The witches drank and felt their magical powers leave them. Within a few hours one died. The next day the other witch died, and the Jews of the region breathed a sigh of relief.

↑ Motek ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2004, 7:41 pm

Quote:

Shortly thereafter, it was Rosh Hashana. R' Shmuel travelled to the Alter Rebbe to spend the Yomim Noraim with him. He saw that the Alter Rebbe didn't look like his usual self. The Alter Rebbe's appearance and his entire avoda were with deep merirus (bitterness). No one knew why.

Later, the Alter Rebbe's grandson, the Tzemach Tzedek, said that during the tekios, when he was under his grandfather's tallis, he had seen that something terrible would happen to his grandfather. He did not see the salvation at that time.

R' Shmuel returned home after Rosh Hashana and then headed back to the Alter Rebbe for Yom Kippur. Erev Yom Kippur, in the afternoon, when he was close to Liozna, a flock of black ravens descended upon him and did not allow him to continue to the town.

Seeing how late it was, R' Shmuel davened a brief erev Yom Kippur mincha with al cheit. As soon as he started on his way again, the black birds resumed their attack, blocking his way.

The sun began to set and the congregation prepared to say Kol Nidrei in the Alter Rebbe's beis medrash. They waited for the Alter Rebbe to signal to them to begin, but the Rebbe was deep in thought. He was witnessing prophetically what was happening to R' Shmuel and he sought ways of helping him out of the danger.

Suddenly he turned to his son (the Mittler Rebbe) and said, "Shmuel is on the road and cannot get here. Go and get him!"

The Mittler Rebbe quickly ran out, along with R' Isaac of Homil and R' Pinchas Reizes. The Alter Rebbe himself followed them out of the shul to the street where he waited for some time. Then he returned to the shul.

When the three Chasidim met R' Shmuel, the flock of birds abruptly left him and the four together made their way to Liozna. Curiously, upon his arrival, R' Shmuel did not daven in the Alter Rebbe's shul the entire Yom Kippur.

After Yom Kippur, when he went to the Rebbe, the Rebbe admonished him for endangering himself in the encounter with the witches. R' Shmuel understood that the birds' attack was a result of that incident.

The Rebbe Rayatz (6th Lubavitcher Rebbe) told this story and concluded, "And in that year (on Isru Chag Succos), the Alter Rebbe was taken to prison."

The Rebbe asked, "Is there a connection between the story of the witches and the Alter Rebbe's imprisonment?"

The Rebbe Rayatz answered, "When they told the story of the witches, they always ended it by saying that that was the year the Alter Rebbe was imprisoned."

↑ Rivka ↓

Sat, Dec 25 2004, 9:49 pm

so what you are saying is that even though the witches died, they left an evil presence behind which still caused things to happen?
Plus this story is hundreds of years ago.

↑ Motek

Sun, Dec 26 2004, 4:11 pm

hundreds of years ago yes, but that brings it much closer to our times than Tanach! and I quote it because it's 100% reliable, being told by the 6th Lub. Rebbe

I have read and heard more recent stories involving forces of evil, but not of the same veracity as the Rebbe

gryp ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2004, 4:12 pm

I know one but its at least 20 pages long. ill try and summarize it when I have time.

amother

Sun, Dec 26 2004, 10:51 pm

it sure exists

rub your palms together for a while (clean & dry)

then hold them near each other, palm facing palm, and ritmically brimg them closer & farther, no more than an inch, not touching.

most of you will feel tingling in your plams. This is your energy, flowing from one hand into the other. With this energy I (and probably you too) can 'remove' headaches, stomachackes, ear aches. I asked a shaila and was told this is permissible.

However, this energy can also be used for evil. I don't know if it will classify and witchcraft.

Hope it was interesting....

↑ Rivka ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 8:02 am

That is known as chi, I don't think witchcarft comes from that energy.

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 9:26 am

ok, heres a recent story of black magic, lets see how short I can summarize it:

It happened with the Shliach of the Rebbe in Paris, France, Rabbi Hillel Pevzner, and told over by his son Rabbi Avrohom Boruch Pevzner, Shliach in Israel.

A young man named Michael lived with his family in Paris. His family was not observant, but Michael was beginning to come closer to Yiddishkeit. His family didnt like this, and there was a lot of frustration and family disputes, so Michael started hanging around in the streets. He didnt have much money, and was very bothered by this, and one of his new street- friends told him, that if he goes to Africa, and finds a certain tribe, they will teach him black magic, and then he'll never have to worry about money again. In short, he hooks up with this tribe in Africa and starts to learn black magic. He excelled in his studies and after a few years advanced from level to level.

(Example of levels: the 2nd level enables the magician to be left unharmed by metal objects: a knife, sword, gun, or even a car. the 3rd level enables the magician to become invisible.)

When Michael reached the 3rd level he suddenly realized there was great dangers involved in the black magic, such as temptaions to do many crimes, etc. After much thought he decided to leave the tribe and stop practicing the magic. The only trouble was that when Michael first joined the tribe, they told him it was for life and he could never leave and if he tried they would hunt him down wherever he goes.

Michael had been told stories of "deserters" who had been tracked down by the tribe and mysteriously died of sudden abnormal deaths. one of them, while he was sleeping, a fire suddenly broke out on his mattress burning only his body and nothing else.

Michael knew he was in trouble so he turned to a Kabbalist in France (he was allowed to leave Africa for short visits) who himself became so scared when he heard what Michael was up to, that he gathered his family around him and ordered Michael to leave his house.

Michael had been to the Lubavitcher Rebbe before and knew he was the only one who could help him. So he wrote a letter to the Rebbe and the answer he got was: "to turn to the Rav in Paris." the Rav was Rabbi Hillel Pevzner, who immediately agreed to help him although he had no idea what he could be getting himself into.

Rabbi Pevzner reminded himself of a story of the Alter Rebbe:
A chossid once was under a spell of a certain sorcerer, and was very ill on the brink of death, so he asked the Alter Rebbe for help. That Shabbos in shul was Parsha Balak, and the Alter Rebbe himself read the Torah and asked that this chossid should be given the 5th aliyah. When the Alter Rebbe got to the words in the Parsha: "ki lo nachash biyaakov, vilo kesem biyisroel" ("for there is no snake in Yaakov, and no witchcraft in Israel" ) the Alter Rebbe tilted his head back and his face became to resemble a burning torch, his eyes wide open. The Alter Rebbe appeared to be in the midst of having "aliyas haneshama." He read the passuk over and over with intense concentration, and suddenly the chossid became feeling better, and the sorceror's spell was broken.

continued.....

Last edited by gryp on Tue, Dec 28 2004, 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 9:55 am

we know that if one doesnt know which special kavanos to have in mind when doing something holy, he should have in mind during davening that Hashem should consider it as if he had whatever holy thoughts he is supposed to have. With this in mind, Rabbi Pevzner wrote Michael a "komeah" with the words of that passuk on it: "ki lo nachash biyaakov, vilo kesem biyisroel." He instructed Michael to always keep it with him.

a few months later Michael got into a strange motorcycle accident. he immediately knew that the tribe had tracked him down, and was full of fear. in the meantime, Michael had been getting tons and tons of mail from the tribe and Rabbi Pevzner told his family not to bring it into the house, but to rip them up and throw them in the garbage outside the house.

a month later, on a Friday night a letter was slipped into the mailbox slot from the tribe. The family had become frum by now and knew they werent allowed to touch it so they left it outside. when Michael came home from shul, a strange thing happened: He started crying and crying, that he wanted to go back to Africa, singing the songs of the sorcerers, and told us he must go back as soon as Shabbos is over, so no one of his family would be brought to harm.

After Shabbos, his parents called Rabbi Pevzner, who told them two things: first Michael should come speak to him, (it turned out he was busy so his son Avraham Boruch spoke with Michael instead), and second: to take the letter and dip it in water to nullify it. (as the gemara says, that water nullifies the powers of black magic) they should handcopy the letter for him to see, and rip up the original one and throw it in the garbage outside.

Rabbi Pevzner read the copied letter which basically said that Michael still owes them a certain amount of money for his lessons, and that he must return before a certain day or they will judge him "on the mirrors."

Michael knew this meant, that they would bring his image up in a mirror, and can do whatever they want to him, hurt him, play with him, kill him,...

Rabbi Pevzer decided Michael must go visit the Rebbe himself. It took long hours of convincing that the Rebbe's "powers" were superior than the sorcerers, different stories of the Baal Shem Tov,.. finally Michael agreed to go. They set everything up in Crown Heights, a place to stay,...etc.

Soon Rabbi Pevzner got a call that Michael missed the flight. there were many many inexplicable "bad luck" problems that went wrong. Rabbi Pevzner immediately called Rabbi Groner (the Rebbes secretary) and asked him to ask the Rebbe for a bracha that Michael should be able to fly to NY. The Rebbe gave his bracha, and Michael got on another flight and came to NY.

On Sunday Michael stood before the Rebbe by dollars, and Rabbi Groner said to the Rebbe: "this is the young man that Rabbi Pevzer is referring to." The Rebbe said in Yiddish: "Fargessen oif altz vos iz geven" "forget everything that has happened until now" then continued speaking to Michael in French and gavea bracha for hatzlacha raba, besuros tovos, and he should have mazal tov, and a Pesach Kosher veSameach. (it was nissan.)

Michale recieved a letter from the Rebbe after dollars, that said: "Hivticha Torah: Hashem Yishmor Tzescha Uvoecha Meata Vead Olam." ("The Torah promises: Hashem will protect both your departure and your arrival from now on and for all time.) and the Rebbe added that Michael should add in the adherence of Torah and mitzvos.

Michael returned to France and Rabbi Pevzner told him that the Rebbe was stressing two points: wherever he goes he will be protected, and from now on he will be protected.

The tribe in the meantime kept sending letters and messages, calling him on the phone. Michael sent themthe sum of money he owed them, and the day came for Michael to be judged on the mirrors, and b"h nothing happened, he was unharmed.

continued...

Last edited by gryp on Tue, Dec 28 2004, 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total

ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 9:56 am

Quote:

That is known as chi, I don't think witchcarft comes from that energy

probably could, if you misuse it

anyway, what is the definition of witchcraft?

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 9:59 am

that is the end of the story.'

sometime later Michael and his family were watching the video of Michael by dollars, and they noticed something new. While Rabbi Groner was introducing Michael, the Rebbe was whispering something! They watched closely many times, and saw that the Rebbe was whispering the passuk: "ki lo nachash biyaakov, vilo kesem biyisroel!!!"

from here we see, there is only One who has powers, and that is Hashem, and there is no other besides Him. Ain Od Milvado...

hope you enjoyed the story. if you have any questions on details I skipped a few because I was trying to summarize although it came out longer than I thought it would
Very Happy

↑ ForeverYoung
Guest

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 10:42 am

interesting, thanks
and spooky

IM-MA

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 11:52 am

Some of the non jews from the West Indies, like Haitians, practice voodoo and other stuff, like warding off evil spirits.

hadasa

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 12:13 pm

RG - where did you hear/ read that story?

sarahd ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 1:40 pm

Golly, that is some story! Gave me the chills. We really don't know what goes on with the koach hatuma. I remember in high school one of our teachers telling us scary stories about people in Flatbush who got pulled into black magic. I don't know exactly why she thought it important for us to know, but it sure was interesting (and scary)!

↑ Rivka ↓

Tue, Dec 28 2004, 5:46 pm

I read that about 30 years ago it was suspected that some people were practicing black magic and even after they died and left the place they practiced it left an evil there which caused paranormal stuff to happen.

In another haunted castle a black demon dog is seen in a fireplace and apparently the guy who used to live there hundreds of years ago practiced black magic.

↑ Rivka ↓

Wed, Dec 29 2004, 4:32 am

I have heard of black tribes doing magic, but to get their magic or the way they get it is by killing young people and using body parts, dunno if this is true.
Witchdoctors, are they the same or are they different?
I heard a frum woman couldn't have kids, she tried everything, even asked for brochos and nothing happened, in the end she went to a witchdoctor and she had a boy.

↑ gryp ↓

Wed, Dec 29 2004, 8:21 am

I sincerely hope that story is not true

↑ Rivka

Thu, Dec 30 2004, 4:33 pm

I also thought it was weird, but it is true, she only has one kid. But I was wondering what sort of repurcutions could happen, she didn't go learn to anything so it isn't like that story of the guy being hounded. But if you couldn't have kids, how far would you go??