Do you leave baby in car when paying for gas?

gold21

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 11:22 am

y'all gotta stop comparing leaving a kid in a car for a minute in full view to all kinds of crazy child abuse cases with psychotic parents, k? what, like yeah my toddler roams the street, I would leave my kid in a car for a half hour when its ninety degrees out, I would leave my stroller in front of a store while I shop, what are you inventing? chas vesholom!

Twizzlers

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 11:43 am

I just want to say, that leaving a kid in the car even in full view in a gas station is quite different than doing so on a private street.
I would and have left a kid in the car (locked of course) in front of someone's house while I ran up the steps to stick something in their mailbox. Or pulled up in front of school and collected an older child from the front gate.
But gas stations are known to be dangerous places where people are waiting for someone to leave an abandoned car. Its asking for trouble.

gold21

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 11:43 am

yeah well thats the funny part. if I didnt have a card on me I wouldnt get gas, unless there was G-d Forbid some emergency. I always pay with a card at the pump. and honestly, if I hypothetically went into the kiosk, I dont think I would really leave my kids in the car, even in full view. I really just want to make a point, which is : dont exaggerate the risks of everything!! so many people do, and it drives me bonkers. like all the ppl freaking out when my son doesnt want to wear his hat in the winter. chill people!

yOungM0mmy

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 5:38 pm

You know that thing about the malach who looks after the kids? My son's malach is definitely working overtime, but still, if I can help it, I'd rather not rely on miracles. My son is a complete daredevil. When he was less than a year, I left him on my bed for a minute, knowing that he wouldn't fall off, he was stable enough to sit, stand, slide down from the side. I came back, to find him standing ON the windowsill, right next to the open window! I still have nightmares from that. I had no idea that a child his age could climb onto the windowsill, never mind pull himself to stand up.
And then the other day - he is 20 months old - he walked out my parents front door, and the door slammed behind him, and they live on a main road. BH my brother was in the bathroom, with the window open, and heard him cry, so went to find him.
He tries to run away from me all the time, he goes up and down stairs without holding on and freaks me out each time I see him, he is for sure going to end up in the emergency room at some point in his life!
I really try my best to look after him, whenever we are out I am always chasing him, even in a confined space I always have an eye on him, but still.
Thank G-d he has that malach looking after him, but I'd rather not "overuse" him, if you know what I mean. I will do everything in my power to keep my son safe, and rely on Hashem to watch him when I can't (and always, obviously), but you can't rely on miracles to keep your kids safe.

Rodent

Wed, Jul 22 2009, 11:24 pm

Yes, I leave my kids in the car when I pay for petrol (which is pretty rare as I normally send my husband to do it when the kids aren't in the car). I only know of one place in the whole city that has pay at the pump (40 minute drive from where we live), all the others you have to go into the store bit. It's not as simple as alone in care, dangerous and taking them inside, safe. I have 3 under 3, a newborn, a runner, and one that is mostly trustworthy but occasionally runs off suddenly. I have deemed it safer for my kids to have them strapped in in the car, watching them as I go and through the window than to try and wrangle them into the store to pay across several lanes with cars.

Fox

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 10:34 am

gold21 wrote:

I am of the belief that people take safety too far. Whaddaya mean, too far, right? The safer the better no? Of course. I do though feel that many moms are into safety cuz it makes them feel like good moms.

There are so many variables in the situation presented, including the actual distance between the car and kiosk, the neighborhood, and the amount of time needed for the transaction. I think most of us would agree that leaving a baby unattended while paying for gas is not the ideal, but I'm not sure it deserves a high ranking on the list of stupid things people do.

My biggest pet peeve regarding safety is how inconsistent and hypocritical people often are. For example, I used to have a neighbor who was absolutely crazed on the subject of carseats and seatbelts. Only the "best practice" would do. Okay, I can respect that. But her kids regularly rode their bicycles and skateboards without helmets! I once gently inquired about it, and she said, "Oh, they hate wearing them, and I grew up without wearing one, so I figure they will, too!" Huh?

I strongly recommend everyone read the book Freakonomics by Stephen Levitt and Steven Dubner. It's fascinating, and it points out that many of us make ill-informed decisions based on anecdotal evidence rather than actual statistical risk. Every parent, for example, should read the chapter about allowing your child to play in a home with a gun versus allowing them into a home with a swimming pool!

This is not to say that I'm in favor of leaving children unattended at gas stations while getting a manicure; again, most of us try to avoid leaving our kids at all. But if we're really concerned about safety -- rather than making ourselves feel like good moms -- we may need to look at statistical data to find out where our children are most at risk.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Jul 23 2009, 11:10 am

I read Freakonomics. The point still stands that whether something is safer than some other thing, there is no reason not to do both safely.
There is no reason for most people to have to be in a position to leave their children unattended, and perhaps get stuck when the cash register jams or whatever. At least in America, most places you can pay directly at the pump. Also gas getting low in the car is not a surprise -- plan it accordingly. I have filled up at times even when I was not at empty because I was at a pump I could pay at instead of being stuck later. With planning and thought, there is no reason to sacrifice even a .001% chance of safety in this particular matter.

ozi

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 5:49 am

Rodent, I am with you on this one. Maybe Australia is just safer than the USA, or maybe it's because you can't pay at the pump, but I do, on occasion leave my kid/s in the car. I always choose the pump closest to the window, so it's about 15 steps away, and I can see the car in full view the entire time.

I wouldn't do it when the temperature hits 46 degrees celcius (or 115....) or anywhere near that.

And yes, I do consider myself to be a very responsible, careful mother!

Atali

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 11:09 am

ozi wrote:

I also did it when I lived in Australia. I would usually try to get gas when I didn't have the kids, but otherwise I would leave the kids in the car while paying. I could see the locked car the whole time and if anyone had tried to go near it I would have ran straight to the car.

I didn't just do it for convenience, BTW. My oldest DS had a tendency to run off in public places and there was really no safe way that I could keep track of him and the baby while paying the cashier.

Atali

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 11:10 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Except if you live in a place where you can't pay at the pump, such as Australia.

Fox

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 3:41 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

The point still stands that whether something is safer than some other thing, there is no reason not to do both safely.

I agree completely; I think everyone would agree that leaving children unattended in a car for a nanosecond is certainly not "best practice" vis-a-vis safety.

However, I have yet to meet a mother who is able to follow "best practice" in every single area of her child-rearing. And we can't always trust our assumptions about the amount of risk involved. For example, while I don't think that leaving a child unattended under the circumstance of paying for gas is ipso facto proof of poor judgment, I am astounded at the number of people who allow their children under age 6 to eat grapes and hot dogs (the #1 causes of pediatric choking and tracheotomies).

So why do I go nuts over toddlers eating grapes or hot dogs, but I'm comparatively mild on this topic? No good reason whatsoever. I have no evidence that one practice is significantly more risky than the other. Maybe I should be hysterical over the unattended-child-in-the-car issue and less crazed about grapes/hot dogs. My point is that we should do our best and make whatever compromises we make based on facts rather than emotions.

gold21

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 4:11 pm

naturally, I agree with Fox's agreement with me. lol. but actually its interesting that you mention this about grapes and franks: im like you in this aspect. Totally totally neurotic about food and kids. and im not neurotic about the idea of leaving kids for a minute in the car. no, mothers definitely do not use facts when making parenting decisions, and exaggerate risks beyong belief.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jul 27 2009, 4:15 pm

There are 2 elements to a risk. Frequency and how bad it is if it happens.
So while it may be infrequent for carjackings to happen, the reality is that it is a terrible occurrence should it happen. Overheating in the car happens more frequently, B"H for such small stops it usually isn't that bad. It's not exaggerating to say that it's dangerous to leave a car unattended with children in it. It is dangerous. It's up to the mother to decide how great a risk it is she wants to take.
Personally, I don't want guns in my house, I don't want a backyard pool, I don't want my kids eating not cut up hot dogs, nor do I want them left unattended in a car. Just because it's rare that something happens doesn't mean I want to give the opportunity for it to happen.