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Moshav Matityahu

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ChossidMom

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 1:11 am

there's no more makolet on Mattityahu. Yesh is a 5 minute walk. They couldn't compete.

The community is Litvish and very predominantly American. Really cool people live there, including, I think, many BT's. *Sigh* I would have liked it there...

The beauty of it is that you live on a pastoral moshav and 5 minutes away you have all the conveniences of Kiryat Sefer - tons of shopping and people. people have done really nice things to the matchbox houses they got on the moshav. Lots of extensions etc. *sigh*

Also, it's a 40 minute drive to Jerusalem or Bnei Brak.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 6:55 am

chavamom wrote:

Kashrus and haircovering are areas of halacha. TO live in this community they agree to a certain communal psak, period. I'm sorry you disagree. So don't move to these communities.

Kashrus and haircovering are halacha. How and to what extent, are minhag. I agree about communal psak, except I find it artificial to have one for people from all around the world and suddenly change everything. Of course it always existed to have "one rav for all", but:
-they were from the same place
-new comers got integrated over decades, if not centuries, and in some places/families you still see differences.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 6:58 am

greentiger wrote:

I would hardly consider Matityahu a strict yeshivish community and find this whole discussion quite amusing.

My problem is not about strictness or about yeshivish or about covering everything or anything. It's about people adopting others' customs and as a result dropping theirs.

Maybe it's an European sensitivity due to the war and its consequences.

Tamiri

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 7:28 am

Ruchel, you mean like "Litvish" Sfardim and Teimanim wearing European suits? LOL! My, my, how the Litvaks have changed over the years.

ChossidMom

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 7:56 am

I highly doubt that "authentic" Teimanim and Sfardim to whom it's very, very important to show a tefach, will want to live on Moshav Mattityahu. Like I said, it's very Litvish/American. I don't hear anyone complaining about having a Mara D'Asra who is Posek Halacha for everyone on the Moshav. Lehefech. I think they see it as a mailah.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 7:58 am

Tamiri wrote:

Ruchel, you mean like "Litvish" Sfardim and Teimanim wearing European suits? LOL! My, my, how the Litvaks have changed over the years.

Yes, for sure MM isn't the only place.

But sometimes they still retain some of their traditions anyway, especially the wives, I have noticed. But I suppose if you kill kashrus & haircovering, there's pretty much nothing more. I'm all for charedis making a community where everyone is supposed to keep his fullest level of observance, as opposed to the neighbour's...

It doesn't even make sense because occasionally it must make some families go down, like those who kept bet Yosef and switch to glatt "only"... at least around here, the glatt eaters eat in Bet Yosef restaurants, but not the contrary.

I also don't wanna know what happens on Pessach... I suppose everyone must adopt the mainstream Ashkenazic standard (is there even such a thing).

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:01 am

ChossidMom wrote:

I highly doubt that "authentic" Teimanim and Sfardim to whom it's very, very important to show a tefach, will want to live on Moshav Mattityahu. Like I said, it's very Litvish/American.

Haaaa, the voice of reason and truth.

There we can agree. Only authentic Litvish, or people for whom their minhagim aren't too important, will feel at ease. Therefore it shouldn't be said you can keep your traditions there.

Inspired

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:09 am

I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with a community setting standards and upholding a derech for itself. No one is trying to impose anything on anyone outside. It is hard to get into the matityahu. If someone manages to they must really want to,and want Rav Leff as their mora d'asra that they follow for everything.

ChossidMom

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:21 am

Exactly.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:21 am

It's only a problem if you say you welcome everyone/it's for everyone, when there is clearly a mold that would be in every day conflict with most non mainstream people. Why not say it's an American type Litvish community? Nothing wrong with that.

But it's not possible that everyone obeys R' Leff's psak, that is the same for all, and at the same time, say

Quote:

You do NOT have to drop your family customs. You have to accept R. Leff's psak on things like you agree to cover all your hair, you agree to no TV, if there is a communal issue, you go to him for a psak. But there are Sephardim, Yekkes and others that still keep their own minhagim. Minhag is not psak halacha

It's like saying it's both black and white. Unless there are case by case exceptions on traditional kissui rosh, kitnyot, needing or not to cover under the knees, and probably other issues that don't come to my mind now. Then, good. I didn't say anything.

ChossidMom

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:24 am

I highly doubt that Rav Leff has ever told a Sfardi that he may not eat kitniyot on Pesach.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:26 am

ChossidMom wrote:

I highly doubt that Rav Leff has ever told a Sfardi that he may not eat kitniyot on Pesach.

But then, what about his project (good one, by the way) that everyone holds the same way so they can all eat by each other, etc?

It would be interesting to hear from either non Ashkenazi or non mainstream Ashkenazi what they were told(about any similar issue).

Inspired

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:28 am

I wonder why you have a bone to pick with this little moshav. No one is asking you to move there.

ChossidMom

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:36 am

I'm kinda wondering the same thing, Ruchel. I'm not sure where you're coming from here. You don't want to eat the hechsherim he tells you to? You don't want to cover all your hair? No problem. Just don't apply to live on Mattityahu. It's a privately owned place and they can make the rules. You can choose not to live there. They're not misrepresenting themselves in any way... Scratching Head

avigailmiriam

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:52 am

Ruchel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

I wonder why you have a bone to pick with this little moshav. No one is asking you to move there.

I wonder why you follow me in many threads to say I have other motives than what I say I have. YOU probably do.

You want to know allll my horrible reasons? Read what I wrote. Because there's nothing else, and you're known for not reading the whole thing.

I'm guessing this Moshav is a lot like the religious equivalent of a gated community. In America, you can pay a premium and apply to live in a closed community. All members pay fees to use common facilities (a gym, a pool, playground) and for shared services (trash collection, snow shoveling, etc.). If you join the community, you agree to keep your house a certain way, even though you own it. This may mean you agree to only pain certain colors, not use ugly lawn ornaments, etc. This is designed to keep the resale value of the homes high, which is good for everyone in the community.

I think this moshav is doing the same thing, only in a religious manner. To keep the community a desirable place to live, everyone there agrees to meet certain spiritual standards. In exchange, they get certain benefits--a good community, friends on a similar religious level, etc. Keeping the community standards homogenus ensures that more like minded people will want to move there, making the resale value of homes higher.

At least, I think that's the way it works. I've never been to a moshav.

Tamiri

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:57 am

I think Ruchel is trying to understand how it works on a Moshav such as Matityahu.
There is, if I am not mistaken, an entrance committee. They check you out. Possibly do some standardized personality testing etc. to make sure you are decent people. You take upon yourselves the guidelines of the Yishuv, whatever they may be. I doubt it means Sfardim eating only non-kitniyot on Pesach but I am sure it means a certain mode of dress for women and men, and certain ways of chinuch for the children. If you are willing to take this upon yourself, no matter who you are, you may be accepted. It's not a given.
In our Yishuv, for example, though there are no strict rules such as those in Matityahu, there is a no driving on Shabbat rule. You cannot bring your car into the Yishuv, or drive it out, except if there is an emergency. You have to abide by that, end of story.

Tamiri

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:59 am

avigailmiriam wrote:

At least, I think that's the way it works. I've never been to a moshav.

It's not "a moshav", it's this moshav. A moshav is basically a co-operative. Something along the lines of a kibbutz but it's less socialized.

avigailmiriam

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 8:59 am

Tamiri wrote:

avigailmiriam wrote:

At least, I think that's the way it works. I've never been to a moshav.

It's not "a moshav", it's this moshav. A moshav is basically a co-operative. Something along the lines of a kibbutz but it's less socialized.

Ah, ok.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 9:03 am

Quote:

Yeah, I can see that.
Actually we live in something similar. We had problems because our garden gate is dark green and not black LOL. We can't repaint the house, or remake the roof, or whatever.
No gym or pool though, although we have a playground and the park is (supposed to be) private.

If I came from an ethnicity were my parents, grandparents, etc, struggled and prayed and cried to be allowed to keep their house red and green and their garden gnomes shiny or whatever, it would bother me plenty not to be able to do it too. BH it's not the case Wink

so I can adapt.

Quote:

I think this moshav is doing the same thing, only in a religious manner. To keep the community a desirable place to live, everyone there agrees to meet certain spiritual standards. In exchange, they get certain benefits--a good community, friends on a similar religious level, etc. Keeping the community standards homogenus ensures that more like minded people will want to move there, making the resale value of homes higher.

I totally see the appeal of it.
Except, the same way I would never want to change my way of covering or eating or whatever to fit in the Gerondi, Abouaziz or Schneerson moshav, I don't think they should change to fit in mine.

Now, a town where every woman would cover in the right way for her rite, where no one would try to be lax because they don't care, where everyone would be on the same level of frumkeit (even if it shows differently)... I sign NOW.

Quote:

At least, I think that's the way it works. I've never been to a moshav.

me neither, I think.

Inspired

Tue, Nov 04 2008, 9:07 am

avigailmiriam wrote:

Yes,and additionally in a moshav you don't own your house. You "buy" it for your lifetime but it belongs to the moshav.

Last edited by Inspired on Tue, Nov 04 2008, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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