Worth millions and still breaking our heads how to live...

Mayflower

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 1:30 am

I'm not worth millions (by any stretch of the imagination LOL

) but I think that maybe it's because you have so much, you might worry more... The more you have, the scarier the thought of not having becomes.

We basically live month to month and b'H Hashem never failed us. We see yad Hashem every day in our finances, so it becomes easier to believe that everything will work out and put our trust in Hashem. Of course we do our hishtadlus, we work hard and try to save some money for simchas and retirement. But in the end, we realize that we will end up exactly with the amount of dollars that Hashem intended for us to have.

So in your case, if your monthly income is 20K and your real estate is already worth several million (which should be plenty to marry off 4 kids!), why do you need to put aside 10K every month? If you could spend another 3-4K a month, that would make you so much more comfortable and you'll still be saving - it's not like you are eating up your savings and will be left with nothing in the long run.

amother

Kiwi

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 2:31 am

Didn't read the whole thread, maybe someone has suggested it already - but why not set a monthly budget for enjoying life? A budget that's seperate from necessities. Something like ma'aser but specifically set aside for you and your family to enjoy.

I'm a stingy person by nature. I most of the time don't like spending on myself or on others. We are not rich, but I anyway have this drive to always save every bit of money on top of it. Which means we afford even less than we could and people think we are poorer than we really are. I have some savings and thinking of them makes me feel good. But sometimes, I do buy new things and tell myself that by putting everything into an invisible dragon hoard of money in the bank, I'm only missing out on life.
I also once heard or read in a shiur that stingy people should sometimes be generous with themselves in order to learn to be more generous towards others. So I'm trying to take that to heart.

amother

Black

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 4:30 am

amother OP wrote:

What will be a normal balance? How much % of one's income?

We fully find our IRA and we have investment account for simchas (and seminary etc)
Talk to a financial advisor and set up investment accounts with target date for when your kids will be dating.

In general it’s wise to live beneath your means but you don’t have to be extreme.

And looking at what others do is a waste of time. Sure, some don’t save for the future and take tzedakah. And others plan wisely and can then buy their kids a house in cash. Or take the whole family away to a hotel for a weekend or yom tov and enjoy the nachas without the stress. Or buy a home in Israel. Etc

realtalk

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 5:15 am

Most financial advisors would say to 10-20% of your income while also having in cash a 3-6 month emergency fund, in your case probably 12 months because you have so much leveraged debt.

After that, calculate how long you have until future big expenses and set up savings specific for that with a set monthly amount. You don't really want to rely on selling assets to pay for simchas if you're able to live on so much less than you're making now because you never know what will be with the market at that specific point.

Live on the rest! You've sacrificed to get to this point where you have the wiggle room, you don't have to live on 50% of your income to reach the next point.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:00 am

OP keep in mind that there is no guarantee that you and DH will live to see your children under the chuppah. I know many chassanim and kallahs who unfortunately walked down the aisle without one or both parents.

There are no guarantees that your children will survive to adulthood or find their zivug. By necessity you are trusting and relying on Hashem that you will be zoche to marry off your children in good health.

You may as well relax, make reasonable hishtadlus, and rely on Him for parnassa as well, which is infinitely easier for him to pull off.

I remember a powerful mashal from the Chafetz Chaim of a traveler, who is carrying a heavy bundle. A passing wagon offered him a ride. The man thankfully climbed onto the wagon, and the wagon started to move. After a short while, the driver noticed that the man was still carrying the heavy bundle on his shoulder.

“Why don’t you relax and put the bundle down on the floor of the wagon?,” said the driver. “You must be so tired.”

“ It was so nice of you to offer me a ride on the wagon,” answered the passenger. “I don’t want to burden you with my bundle as well.”

The driver laughed. “Who do you think is carrying you and your bundle? it’s all being carried by the wagon anyway. You may as well relax, and put the bundle down.”

Hashem is giving us life, creating the millions of cells, and maintaining the bodily functions that keep us alive each moment. He created our means of parnassa, and provided us will the skills and ability to earn our parnassa.

He, and He alone is carry us in any case. Doesn’t it make sense to relax and rely on him after doing the hishtadlus we are supposed to be doing?

amother

Mauve

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:05 am

amother OP wrote:

I just want to share and would love to hear if there are any helpful tips...

My husband and I saved extremely after the wedding and invested everything in real estate. BH, we managed to reach a nice portfolio with a net worth of several millions and a nice monthly profit.
We BH have 4 children and live in our own apartment with a low mortgage on it.

We earn a total of around 20K a month and really try to live only from 10K a month and invest the rest back in real estate.

The problem is that I see a lot of people around me who live in rentals and earn much less than me but still go on more vacations than us, wear brand names, go to expensive restaurants and of course go to Florida for Pesach, and this makes me really confused about how to live and how much to save for the future
(We also go on vacations and restaurants, etc. but not in the same amount)

It just drives us crazy. all day we are busy thinking about how much we should spend and from how much we should live.

I wonder what others think.

You might be worth millions because of your real estate, but in essence, you really only bringing home $20,000 a month, which is not a ton. So even though you're officially worth a lot more, I wouldn't say you're a millionaire... It's not money you can use now.

amother

Black

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:11 am

amother Mustard wrote:

This is not good advice in my opinion. Hishtadlus includes retirement accounts and savings for the future. Living like there’s no tomorrow is NOT a Jewish value.

If ch”v parents don’t live to see their children get married- if they saved properly and have good life insurance policies, at least their children will have financial security.
If ch”v a child takes a while to find their zivug, at least the parents can pay for their graduate schooling or give them a sum to start a business.

People who have good income should give maaser and tzedakah, pay full tuition, live a little beneath their means (but not extremely so), live modestly so as not to create jealousy or peer pressure, and save for the future.

Don’t be stingy but don’t be ostentatious. Who is smart? He who sees the future.

amother

Oldlace

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:16 am

There is a concept in hashkafa that if Hashem gives you riches and you don't enjoy them, it is kefiyat tov - ingratitude. A wealthy person is not suppose to live like a poor person.
That doesn't mean overspending but also doesn't mean super saving the way you are describing when (if what you say is true) you already have enough to last you a lifetime. Looking at other people is not relevant. Look at your income and make a decision what you want to do but you should be enjoying the bounty that Hashem has granted you with - albeit in a measured fashion.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:20 am

amother Black wrote:

I’m in agreement with the above . No one is saying to throw caution to the wind and spend like there’s no tomorrow. Prudent planning is part of hishtadlus. When it turns into penny pinching and stress that doesn’t allow one to enjoy life and provide for one’s family in a healthy way commensurate with one’s means that is no longer proper hishtadlus.

amother

Tanzanite

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:24 am

We are not worth millions but we have real estate that’s worth 1.5 million and a successful business.
We save and we spend. Either extreme is not right (imho) and we have to enjoy life while looking forward to the future. My husband nets about $30k a month( sometimes more and sometimes less). We spend about $15k. We pull out some more money if we want to vacation or renovate etc . We save a good amount but we also spend money so our life has enjoyment and meaning.

mattel25

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:26 am

amother Mauve wrote:

My brother got rich from real estate and didn't want to bother with it anymore. He sold it all (around 20million) and put most of it into government bonds which earns him a nice 4% or so on which he lives, something like 800k to 1 million a year. Their new home was purchased cash so no mortgage and they live quite the lavish lifestyle the OP described on that 800k-1mil a year: 5 to 6 luxury vacations a year, frequent dining out at upscale restaurants, expensive clothes etc. I think I would do that too if I had that kind of money.

amother

Pink

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:34 am

I agree with everyone who says that balance is key.

My husband’s business was very successful bH. We continue living on a comparably low standard in day to day life but bought a nice house and spend on things that are important to us (not the typical fancy vacations, cars, clothes, restaurants etc. - more atypical and low key things that people don’t realize can be expensive).

His partner is a huge spender and blew all his money on extravagance.

When the business hit a downturn we were able to continue living life without a blip - the only thing that was affected was that we put less money into savings during that time.

We were still able to invest in opportunities that came up during the leaner times while partner has no money and is struggling to keep up with his very high expenses.

So save, spend, but always keep your balance.

amother

Lightyellow

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:42 am

amother OP wrote:

My problem is that I don't understand how other ppl. don't think about money as much as me, we are thinking ahead and are nervous about marrying our kids off, and giving them a future and about my pension.

I guess my question is how could you live the present without freaking out about the future.

Some people are ok living without planning for the future. Not everyone is a planner. Some people might worry but aren't happy restricting themselves enough to save more. I think it pays to be responsible and plan, but you can only choose how you will live.

amother

Steelblue

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:46 am

amother Black wrote:

No there are well known stories of tzaddikim who refused to make sales in their store as soon as they had earned enough to cover that days expenses. Both approaches to bitachon are valid.

amother

Petunia

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 6:58 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

I just heard something very interesting in a shiur.
Hashem sometimes allows someone to get rich, they sit on it, they don't enjoy it and don't use it, and Hashem orchestrated it just like that, so that it can get passed on to the one Hashem intended it.

The people that gather the wealth are not necessarily those that Hashem intends for them to enjoy it. We see this many times in real life.

essie14

Thu, Apr 11 2024, 8:38 am

amother Puce wrote:

I would recommend sitting with a financial advisor.

Of course you need to save for the future. But you said you are worth millions. You should probably balance your portfolio a bit - everything in real estate only isn't super smart.

Set up marrying of your kids funds - if you put $1000 a month into a mutual fund that brings you around 8%, you will have $600,000 after 20 years which is plenty.

Then up your giving and up the freedom you allow yourself to live. You should enjoy your money, but going out of control and living above the standard of the people around you isnt healthy either.

Exactly what I was going to say.
The #1 thing you have to do, OP, is balance your portfolio.
Putting every extra cent you have into real estate isn't wise.
You should be fully funding your 401(k)/pension/IRA.
This is all pre tax income.
Then an emergency fund , 100% liquid. (Savings account)
Then set up funds for your smachot - bar/bar mitzvah and weddings.
Then line items on your budget.
Vacation
Home renovations
Jewelry
Etc.

Then when you want to take a family vacation, you'll have money set aside for it and you don't have to feel guilty. You know that your long term savings are taken care of.