Post partum boss asking when I plan to return

amother

Trillium

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 12:44 pm

amother Moccasin wrote:

Its not up to us to find subs. Our agencies are supposed to find subs.
Parents need to understand that when they get school based services for their children, especially from young frum women in their child bearing years, they run the "risk" of their children losing out when we take off after after babies. Your child's therapist is entitled to take off 18 weeks if she wanted and she doesnt need to feel bad about that.
I start off the school year with a full caseload. Why should my parnassa be effected because I want to stay home after I have a baby in the middle of the year?

I’m also a school based therapist and I honestly don’t think that’s so nice or ethical even if you’re technically allowed to. Students really need these services especially these days. Most frum teachers and therapists I know take around 8 weeks, 12 max.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 1:23 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

Also a school based therapist and I disagree.

I don't think it's ethical to leave a 2 or even 3 month old at a babysitter.

Technically not allowed? According to who? What exactly will happen to me if I take a longer leave?

Also it's not about parnassah. The agencies pay so little that by the time im done paying for my license, insurance, child care, gas for my car and other work related expenses, I'm basically not making any money anyways. The only reason I go to work when I'm not post partum is because otherwise the students would not be getting the services at all. Why do you think there's a shortage of therapists?

So no, I don't think it's unethical when I take off after I have a baby. What's unethical is how little school based therapists get paid.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 1:29 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

I'm a school based therapist and strongly disagree.

I take as long as I am legally entitled to.

I am so happy that in NYS and NJ the government finally realized the importance of postpartum support and enacted paid family leave. It is so vitally important.

A mom's priority when she is postpartum is being with her baby for as long as she can. not returning to work asap. And no, she does not have to give up her parnassa for the whole year and not take a caseload because she is having a baby in January

It's on the agencies to figure out coverage

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 1:32 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

Exactly. On the average, our society has babies every 2 -3 years. And if they're on leave 4-5 month frequently, we’re gradually going to become unwanted hires. They can always come up with a legal valid excuse why a person wasn't hired, so the legality of it is not much of a concern.

We can be right about legal rights and the business can be equally right about their concerns. Bottom line is that we need the business to hire us and not the other way around.

So what do we gain about such attitudes.?

It's not an "attitude" to want to take a proper maternity leave of 12-18 weeks. It's a good thing that we can do that now, and it's crazy that 6-8 weeks was ever the expected norm.

And no, I'm not especially worried that all of us frum women are gonna find ourselves unemployed. Chill. You sound very anxious.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 1:57 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

Of course she should. But that doesn't eliminate the need to communicate appropriately with her boss.

As a boss, it would be the lack of communication that would affect her adversely, and not the time she is taking off. I'm flexible and understanding and accommodate as needed. But if you disregard the needs of the business and don't allow for us to plan accordingly, then that is not an employee we would want to retain. Especially if this situation might recur approx every 2-3 years.

If OP had communicated her plan to her boss, and they would have had an opportunity to hire a temp worker or implement another plan, there wouldn't be any concern. But letting her employer know late in the game, has probably tied his/her hands to some degree.

Emplyee rights means that she can withold this decision till she has to make it or change her mind, so not communicating means she hasnt made up her mind. It sounds to me like she would come back early for extra compensation.
I know its hard to be an employer but there is a reason for these employee rights.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:29 pm

amother Vermilion wrote:

You have missed my point. The attitude is not about wanting the allotted time off. The attitude is about not displaying consideration for the clients and boss. You need to communicate your intentions to your boss so he/she can appropriately manage your space while you're out. You need to work with the clients and boss (within realms of possibility) for appropriate hand-offs so they still get needed services.

Just shrugging and saying too bad, I get my time off and I don't care about the fallout is the attitude I'm referring to. You can take the time off but still show consideration and concern for the fallout. It's not a contradiction.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:32 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

She can take the leave she is entitled to. Just communicate and say you are taking off. But don't ask for extra compensation to come back earlier. That just doesn't look good. Especially since she works remotely.

amother

Milk

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:33 pm

amother Turquoise wrote:

Let's say you're due November. Before sukkahs there are hardly any days & many therapists don't even bother. Then you're already due, & come back to work Pesach time which will most likely be after Pesach because who goes back to work erev Pesach? That gives you only maybe 2 months until the end of the school year.

If it's not for the income then why not take the school year off?

Is it ethical to deprive a child in need of services for most of the school year?

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:34 pm

amother Milk wrote:

If every therapist who was having a baby didn't work that full year there would be way more unserviced kids. How is that ethical?

amother

Daisy

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:38 pm

amother Moccasin wrote:

Here is where we will disagree.
All local NYC agencies I’ve spoken to have said that once the year starts and providers are set, it’s impossible to switch or get a new provider. They try to do full case loads and stick to one local school. Mid year they cannot send a sub as they do not have.

I had one child the therapist called me at the beginning of the year to confirm that years services and told me she’ll be out 6 weeks post partum between these estimated dates. She asked if I was ok or should they look for a back up in advance at the beginning of the year, or do I want a different provider for that year. I kept that provider as I knew that that child could handle 6 weeks without the services.

This child, the provider texted me the end of November that she’s taking off the following week but not sure how long. The agency does not have a replacement so I have to wait for when she will return. I was never told in the beginning of the school year that she would be taking off. Had I known I would have requested a different provider. This child needs the services and within 6 weeks was regressing. Five months minimum and counting leave is not ok in this scenario. She started in October and worked for two months, takes a 5 months minimum leave and then wants to come back the last month of school.

Well guess what, I don’t think I want her back and the other parents probably don’t either. I may take dc to private therapy and she loses my child for the rest of the year, and probably next year too.

Mentchlich would be to tell me the end of August / beginning September when calling to confirm you’re continuing that it’s only two out of ten months and I would decide if my child really needs the services or if they’ll manage without.
My child’s needs come before the providers parnassa in this case.

The agency now has many unhappy parents and likely this provider just lost her job for the following school year as parents don’t want her back. Other agencies will inquire from previous ones and she may have trouble getting a new job.

I expect providers to be upfront with me just like I am with them. If I have a simcha, going out of town, taking a vacation or a child is sick I always text in advance so they can rearrange their schedule and not have an empty slot in middle of the day. I expect the same courtesy.

amother

Moccasin

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:39 pm

amother Trillium wrote:

Im not technically allowed to take this time off, Im entitled to it. I work full time and give my all to my job. I have a baby now and want to enjoy my time with her. I dont think its ethical to leave a newborn with a sitter. You do what works for you. The women I work with in my school all take off at least 12 weeks. At the end of the day, I care about my students, but I care about my own children more.

I am also not paid nearly enough- after gas, childcare, work expenses... I really am not left making much at all. That was my point earlier re the lack of maternity leave coverage. If they paid us more they would have an easier time finding subs for when we take off.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:42 pm

amother Milk wrote:

This is nonsense. Many therapists start working before sukkos. I usually get my caseload the week of labor day and start working the next week or so.
I actually gave birth twice in October and always had been working a few weeks before I gave birth. And I took off until early-mid January or so, not until Pesach.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:45 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

Likely that therapist will not have any trouble finding work next year due to the shortage of therapists.

And the therapist doesn't work for you. You don't pay her. She works for the agency. She doesn't have to tell you every time she is taking off.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:56 pm

amother Milk wrote:

Actually I have done exactly this in the past.
And guess what? The school I service didn't have a speech therapist for that entire year because the agency couldn't find a replacement.

amother

Dustypink

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 2:59 pm

amother Moccasin wrote:

Then get a different job. Go into an office. This is more than parnassah. This is the mental, emotional, educational health of children. Don’t play games with them. I work in a school. I see the effect and how the kids fall behind.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Apr 01 2024, 3:05 pm

amother Dustypink wrote:

Do you realize that if most therapists switch to office jobs the children wouldn't be getting therapy at all? This is not like it was 20 years ago when there was a huge surplus of therapists. There is a huge shortage now. If you care about the children, you should be happy your school has therapists at all. And treat them well and be supportive of them so they dont burn out and leave, as many are.

Its interesting because I find that very few therapists remain in the field past age 40 or so, when that would be the ideal time to work because they don't have maternity leave any more. But after years of being mistreated and taken advantage of and paid pennies and looked down upon they burn out and leave.