Please explain to me what wanting woman to Lein Megilla is

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:50 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

Do you think Hashem doesn’t care that you don’t put in effort in other Mitzvos? We have so much empty time today (especially if we choose to have time) Don’t you think it’s a chutzpa that we don’t spend it learning?

I don't understand your question. Can you explain a little more?

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:55 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Ok, I'm a little lost here.

You say that our mitzvos are equal to men's mitzvos is about feminist brainwashing. I agree, the three mitzvos you mentioned are not equal to all of men's mitzvos.

So they're either higher or lower (I mean if they're not equal, then what are they? Its either higher or lower). The three mitzvos that you say we have - two are medrabanan- are certainly not HIGHER than all the men's mitzvos.

So what are you saying?

I’m saying you can’t take a scale and say what is equal and what isn’t. And it’s different for different people. Mitzvot aren’t higher or lower or better or worse. It’s not a point system. They’re just different. I also never mentioned three mitzvot. Women have a whole lot more than 3. It’s just 3 that keep on getting mentioned. Women are obligated to do all non time dependent mitzvot.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:59 pm

amother Tan wrote:

You said that there are lots of mitzvos that are special for women. Then you mentioned three. That's not lots.

And I guess we can agree to disagree because the way I see it, men certainly have more mitzvos which equals more of an opportunity to connect to Hashem. To me, more is more. Maybe it's because a math person that I think this way... Not to mention talmud Torah, kneged kulah which women don't have.

And I'm not saying all this just to be contrary. This is something that really bothers me. I don't see that women have a special role, I don't see that women have a special anything.

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:06 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

And I always learned that women don’t need reminders because women are more spiritual. Everything comes from the women. If a mother is Jewish the baby is Jewish. Women are inherently on a higher spiritual level. Ask any BY teacher anywhere and he or she can tell you all this. Men need a Brit milah and to wear tzitzit and a kipah in order to constantly remind them that HaShem is in front of them. Women don’t need all this because we always know this. The geulah came from women and it will come in the zechut of women. We women really are the superpowers. Don’t tell men cuz they can’t handle it!!

amother

Wine

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:11 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Only difference is that women aren’t obligated in the mitzvos.
Most mitzvos can be done by women.
How do the men in your life feel about women’s importance in Judaism?
I think that makes a big difference in how women feel about whether they are just as “special “ or “important”
Bc it’s completely clear to me that my role is just as special.
I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be.
I’m constantly doing and accomplishing in a way which I feel Hashem wants me to be.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:13 pm

I’ll answer for myself. I’m hard of hearing. I have a good deal of difficulty being yotzei. My options seem to be either sitting behind a mechitza and straining to hear, or sitting in a mixed group at the local Chabad. I’ve been going to Chabad because my cheshbon is it’s more important to hear, but I’m uncomfortable with it and I’d rather just read it myself. And as long as I’m reading it myself I might as well read for others who also need.

amother

Bluebell

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:17 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

I don't understand your question. Can you explain a little more?

The thinking that if a woman doesn’t have a chiyuv she shouldn’t do it is wrong. A Yisroel isn’t allowed to do what a Kohein does, but a woman is allowed to do a vast majority of what men do. And we get schar for it.

Thinking that Hashem would rather that women do other things than learn or daven is perverse. But our community doesn’t like the implications. If it’s such a big mitzva for women to daven with a minyan, than couples should alternate taking care of the kids. If women learn, then men will have to take over. So, the solution is to discourage women of doing anything beyond the bare minimum. Like this women can continue taking over so that men can do whatever they want. Nothing to do with actual Halacha.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:23 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Things can be different and equal or different and unequal, but if they're different and unequal, one has to be greater and the other lesser.

You’re trying to apply mathematical logic to spiritual matters. It’s like trying to plot the trajectory of a rocket ship flying to Mars with a ruler. Spiritual matters are on a different scale and class. We can’t measure the worth of a mitzva or the schar we get for it. We don’t operate on a plane of existence where we know whose spiritual levels are greater or lesser.

amother

Bluebell

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:24 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

Most of Halacha and Gemara is logic.

chanatron1000

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:30 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

Things are either equal or not equal whether you can measure them or not.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:33 pm

amother Tan wrote:

If a man goes to minyan three times a day, and learns the rest of the day, puts on tefilin and tzitis etc then this particular man is doing more mitzvos and is closer to Hashem than a woman who, goes to the gym, the nail salon, shopping,... and spends her free time on instagram. I don't see that women are on a higher spiritual level, at all. Maybe I'm surrounded by more spiritual men and less spiritual women... I don't know. The women in your life always remember that Hashem is in front of them? Really?

Also, mitzvos are not about being "reminders", it's way more than that. I don't really see how that point is relevant to anything. So because women are inherently more spiritual they can spend their days shopping and browsing instagram guilt free?

I don't see women being superpowers at all. Maybe it's just the women I know...

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:35 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

Thank you for clarifying.

The implications of what you are saying - that our communities are doing things all wrong - is frightening. And I hope it's not true. I hate to be wrong.

amother

Mintcream

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:37 pm

I don't relate to it; I've never been to a women's Megillah reading.

But I guess it's not unlike everything else in life: if it's important to you, you make time for it and don't see it as a burden.

Maybe not so unlike the fact that I still prefer to come home from a full day's work and cook a healthful meal for my family even though I could feed them frozen dinners, pizza, cold cut sandwiches, or something like that and save myself a hassle.

I want them to eat well, so I take the time and effort and have no complaints about it.

notshanarishona

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:44 pm

Why would someone want to read? Convenience could definitely be a huge factor, women’s readings would be much earlier in the day if not waiting for men’s readings to finish. More options of readings if more people can read, it can be done in smaller groups and potentially easier to organize;
Comfortability - definitely more comfortable to hear it from a peer than a man;
Enjoying the challenge, I could see it being fun to learn to read from a megillah, I guess why not

notshanarishona

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

all about.

There are countless threads about woman being overworked these days, with woman being main breadwinners yet still doing the bulk of childcare, housework etc etc.

People want to know why men 'babysit' for their own kids, can't cook for a couple of weeks when wife is pp and countless other things.

So please explain why women think it's unfair that men are the ones who generally lein megilla when it seems we can do just as good a job if not better? It's something men do, do all these woman want ANOTHER responsibility that men happily take care of?

What's behind it?

Also to answer your question, a woman has to hear the megillah anyway. It’s not adding this huge time pressure or responsibility to be the one to read it. If it wasn’t mandatory to listen I could hear you saying why are we chasing after extra responsibilities, as far as men happily taking care of, I know that there are always people who the times being offered are challenging for that schedule, there is something nice about being able to hear it whenever you want.

amother

Bluebell

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:01 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Thank you for clarifying.

The implications of what you are saying - that our communities are doing things all wrong - is frightening. And I hope it's not true. I hate to be wrong.

It is frightening. I know I sound harsh but you have no idea how much it hurts. Your understanding felt like empathy to me. Research it yourself. Go learn on your own. Hashem wants us, and we have to fight. It’s really painful. With you sister

amother

Tan

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:05 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

I don’t know any women like this. Maybe it’s because I don’t have Instagram or Facebook or any type of social media. The women I know who don’t work are involved in tons of chesed. Even the women who do work are doing tons of chesed. Yes, most make time to go to the kosher gyms and to take care of themselves, but no one I know is just going and shopping and being on Instagram all day. (And the people I k ow who have social media and post are usually very insecure and need people to ooo and aaaa over them. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, everyone needs some positive compliments, but she. It takes over their life that is when the problems start but this thread isn’t about the evils of Facebook and Instagram.

amother

Acacia

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:11 am

There is precedent for women taking on--for themselves and for all generations to follow-- time-bound mitzvot from which mideoraita they are exempt. These include sukkah, lulav, shofar, counting omer and reciting shma--all mitzvot asei shehazman gerama, from which, classically, women are exempt. You know anyone who says "I don't read shma or count omer because it's not 'my' mitzvah"? Now no one is suggesting that women take on for future generations the obligation to read megillah. There is NO obligation to read it--the obligation is to HEAR it, and anyone, male or female, is at liberty to coast on the baal koreh's dime.

But why the furor over those who prefer to take an active role rather than get credit for the baal koreh's work? Do you criticize a man who prefers to make his own kiddush rather than rely on the rabbi's kiddush? Would you criticize a man who chose to learn how to perform bris milah so he could do this for his sons rather than rely on another mohel? (BTW, a woman who knew what she was doing could be mohel her own son if the child's father was unable or unwilling. The precedent here is none other than Tzipporah, wife of Moshe Rabbenu. So while the custom is for the father to perform the ceremony--or to hire another man to do it for him--there is no halachic reason why a woman couldn't do it. The hard part would be finding a mohel willing to teach a woman the trade.)

amother

Viola

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:16 am

amother Tan wrote:

If women are inherently on a higher spiritual level, why don't men go to them for spiritual advice?