If you didn’t go to seminary in Israel

amother

Ecru

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:24 pm

didnt go to sem in israel. I cry seeing pics of the land. my profile pic is of israel even though I wasn't there in forever and a day. I visited a couple of times, never over yom tov or significant amount of time.
as a Jew, libi bamizrach. my dream is to live there. I think about israel all the time.

JasmineDragon

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:50 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

It would be interesting if someone with resources would do a survey of how many girls go to Israel for Seminary - end up living there. And from which schools. And from which backgrounds and areas.

The schools wouldnt want that as it would turn parents off. I know there are some seminaries who dont hide their Zionistic leanings, and are sought after by girls who want to make Aliyah eventually, but most stay far away from that agenda.

I was in a seminary for older baalei teshuva (older as in not fresh out of high school, I think most girls were in their 20s, although there was no upper age limit), and quite a lot of girls made Aliyah.

I imagine it's a lot more common for girls to make Aliyah from this type of seminary, where they're coming as independent adults and may not have had much connection to a Jewish community where they lived before. At that point, parental approval isn't really part of the equation, either.

meyerlemon44

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:12 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

I was there mid/late 90s. I guess I should have specified 1980s and early 90s. Because I feel that there were so many societal changes in the frum world starting then, that even someone who made aliyah in 1992 was already starting to be a bit out of the loop if they had stayed in their bubble. I probably am close to your age lol.

That is really fascinating. Can you say more about what kind of changes they weren’t aware of?

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:26 pm

amother Ginger wrote:

this!!

I think of this so often.. cultural modern day israel is not the same thing as eretz yisrael that we are connected to.
dont get me wrong, I love the culture too - but we cant confuse loving hebrew, and 'sabra' and falafel for loving eretz yisroel as a land that was gifted to us by Hashem.

this can also explain why some american sem girls have a hard time with some of the roughness in israeli culture - it has nothing to do with loving eretz yisrael.

Your clue is how they refer to the place. AIUI, if you call it Eretz Yisroel, you're thinking religiously/Messianically/ theoretically. If you call it Israel or Yisrael, and especially if you call it Aretz, you're thinking Zionistically/religious-Zionistically/pragmatically.

amother

Dimgray

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 6:37 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Sorry for the question but in the sem classes and tours are conducted in Hebrew or English?

A few of the classes were in Hebrew. I don't think I had an issue following along with the ones taught by Americans, but they spoke more slowly and with an American accent. I think we had a couple of classes with Israeli teachers and those were harder to follow.
The tiyulim that I recall going on had Israeli tour guides speaking in Hebrew for the most part.

amother

Dimgray

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 6:58 pm

meyerlemon44 wrote:

That is really fascinating. Can you say more about what kind of changes they weren’t aware of?

It's hard to explain.
I guess the best way to say it is that by the late 90s, the American frum world was on the cusp of major societal changes and things were just starting to come to the surface.

Like kids at risk, accessing the internet, it becoming more mainstream and acceptable for yeshivish girls to get college degrees, girls moving away from the trajectory of becoming a Bais Yaakov teacher by default, the shidduch crisis with girls starting to have trouble marrying within the first couple of years back from sem, the beginning of people speaking up about molestation in the frum world etc. It was bubbling below the surface in Israel too, but it hit first and more obviously in America. And a lot of the girls coming to seminary had these issues in their family or were starting to deal with it and the clueless seminary teachers were still droning on about treif college degrees and how girls should only become B.Y. teachers because of the bad influences of working in an office, plus a cluelessness about certain financial realities in regard to long term kollel lifestyle. And so on....
It's been quite some time so I certainly don't remember everything but looking back I feel the year was one long mussar schmooze on avoiding secular stuff and bad influences. I think I enjoyed a couple of the classes that were more intellectual and text based but they were the minority by far.

meyerlemon44

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 7:19 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

Very interesting, thank you! "One long mussar schmooze" is honestly how seminary sounds to me as someone who never went. That's fine I guess, but I'm not sure it's worth $20K if you can't afford it.

amother

Starflower

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 7:54 pm

I never went to Seminary in Israel..I went to a 6 week program during college but I can't say I developed a connection from my time there. When my son was in Yeshiva in 2022 ( 25 years later) I took a trip there and I teared up when landing..I was home..spent most of my time at the kotel. Went again the following year when I had 2 kids in Israel and again spent most of my time in Yerushalyim. Went again this year so my son could visit his yeshiva..went to the kotel 7 times in 3 days..since I never traveled much when I was there ..my strongest connection is the Kotel..I would go back just to be able to daven there again.

amother

Dimgray

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 8:21 pm

meyerlemon44 wrote:

Very interesting, thank you! "One long mussar schmooze" is honestly how seminary sounds to me as someone who never went. .

I mean, that's kind of what it was like in the frum world in general when I was growing up in the 1980s and early 90s. More and more of a push to "grow" and cut things out. No movies, no non Jewish music, no radio, no sports, no secular books. Of course not everybody adhered to that but you definitely felt embarrassed and a bit guilty if you didn't! Things started to change a bit by the late 90s for sure, but I guess seminary teachers were behind and hadn't quite gotten the memo.

mfb

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 8:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

I remember going to the Kotel on motzoei Shabbos and random days and taking a white chair and just sitting and saying tehillim…
And davening on the mirpeset every morning as the beautiful sun rose…
And going to Kever Rachel…

It’s 12 years later and I just feel so connected. I was able to imagine what it would look like with aliyah leregel because of birchas kohanim at the Kotel and also shavuos night- one of the most powerful nights of my stay there. Men and women walking late at night, straight through the Muslim quarter, joyful and holy…

I happen to have also loved seminary and made lifelong friends and mentors/rebbeim
But for me one of the biggest takeaways was getting to know and love the land

I don’t love the idea of sending a dd alone away for a year but I wouldn’t want to deny her such a connection to our homeland. (I think moshaich will be here soon so we’ll all be there long before dd is sem age!)

You can get those feelings with a 3-4 week tour

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:27 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

You did a great job explaining.
Are you an anthropologist?

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 12:19 am

amother OP wrote:

Do you still have a very strong connection to the land?

I feel like one main benefit of going for me was forging a personal connection with EY and a yearning to return, a real feeling that it’s my home. That’s important to me especially in times like these where I’m able to daven for EY with heart and sincerity, picturing the land as I knew it for a year and a half and all the people I met.

Is that connection possible if someone doesn’t live there for a period of time?

I went to seminary in the USA and 20+ years later I made aliyah with my family

Reality

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 2:07 am

amother Tangerine wrote:

I am so curious, which sect of Jews call Israel, Yisrael or Eretz?

I've traveled in many circles and have never met either. Did you mean Medinat Yisrael?

I do love how you include theoretical in your response. There are too many Jews who love our land in theory.

notshanarishona

Tue, Mar 05 2024, 3:29 am

I got to really experience and love E”Y only when I came back after seminary and really lived there. In seminary I was constantly stressed about Shabbos plans, yom tov plans, it was very hard as someone with no family and so much of the year the focus was on various parts of adjustment to dorm life in substandard conditions ( the things no one speaks about like learning to sleep on a super thin mattress, learning to eat food you don’t like, having roommates who make noise when you try to sleep, having to ask strangers to host you, etc) . Overall seminary was a good experience but I don’t think it was anywhere near the essential experience as its rated . Living there in a regular apartment, choosing my roommates, finding a job was a much more positive experience.