If you didn’t go to seminary in Israel

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 8:52 pm

I've had a connection to the land since the day I was born though I wouldn't have known it till I was somewhat older. It was in my upbringing and my education. A year in sem would have been a marvelous experience, probably, but a year being a supermarket cashier or a kibbutz volunteer in Israel would have been just as transformative, maybe more so. I don't think either way would have made my connection any stronger than it is, but being a cashier or a kibbutznik would have improved my Hebrew a great deal more.

zaq

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 8:58 pm

You are aware, are you not, that there are other mechanisms for young women to go to Israel that are not a year in seminary? Yes? So your question shouldn't really be about going or not going to sem in Israel but going there or not going there for an extended period of time through whatever means it happens to be. If you took a job as an au pair or went on a "college semester abroad" program or volunteered on a religious kibbutz, your premise would still be applicable.

amother

Babyblue

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:17 pm

I am like amother tangerine and don't ever remember not loving Israel. My cousins made aliyah when I was little, and we wrote letters back and forth. My parents took us there for a month when I was 15 and it confirmed everything I felt. While I did not go for sem, I did spend a semester of college there. My children also have a deep abiding love for the land. Only one of them went post high school.

amother

Valerian

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:36 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

So this is really a thing?
Great, lets make shidduchim harder and harder, just what we need.

Its only a thing the way its a thing for people to ask if you put a plastic tablecloth on top of ypur shabbos tablecloth. Or asking why your grandfather got divorced.
Yes, these people really exist, and no we should not take them seriously.
They dont want us but we also dont want them.

amother

Rainbow

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:38 pm

I did not go to Israel for seminary. We’ve made aliyah and I am in love with this amazing and special place I’m privileged to call home. More than call home, American Jews call it home too. I live here, I breathe her air, I feel her strength in me. Hashem created us with her and when you live it, not just on your parents dime as a kid, you become part of her and she becomes part of you.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:53 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

So this is really a thing?
Great, lets make shidduchim harder and harder, just what we need.

So I hear you, but I don't think it's that terrible. There are lots of things people look for in shidduchim that are important to them, and we don't know why the DH wanted it.

Strong desire to make aliya, so needs someone who has lived there to better understand what its like? Strong desire to have "shared" the experience of having lived there? Or something else entirely...but it doesn't have to be negative.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:57 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

I did not have a good year in sem. Nothing major happened...but there were a lot of long draggy afternoons, boring/patronizing classes, stress about shabbos plans, etc. Did not have a connection to the seminary teachers who seemed to be living in a bubble and were very detached from the reality of current day American frum people (it was like they were stuck in the past from the 1980s/90s or whenever they had picked up and moved to EY and thought everything in America was just the same).
When I left at the end of the year, I had no desire to go back. It took me close to 10 years to go back for a summer vacation. I went on some tours where I actually understood the information (geared to Americans and spoken in English) and experienced being there without the stress and boredom of my seminary year. And I loved it, and felt very inspired, and have felt a connection ever since. I think most people whitewash their memories of seminary and look back with rose colored memories. I remember a lot of girls feeling the same way, they just didn't admit it after going home at the end of the year, and after some time managed to convince themselves it was the most amazing year ever. Or they get married shortly after, and when they look back it's from the point of view of the last time they were truly carefree and unencumbered and that's why they look back so nostalgically on their seminary year. Obviously, this isn't the case for everyone. But it is true for more girls than you'd think.

This is so interesting to read. I don’t personally know anyone who actually verbalized these feelings, but I wonder if they are pretending they had a great year when they really didn’t.
I loved seminary and needed that year very badly (stuff going on at home).
I lived there married and they were the greatest few years of my life .

However , my daughter is the type to not like it for similar reasons you wrote above , and therefore it’s intriguing to hear this and sort of match it to what my daughter might feel. If she doesn’t want to go I certainly won’t push it - especially since I can’t afford it anyway 😂

amother

Snow

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 12:06 am

I went to seminary many years ago and have been living in Israel upwards of two decades. Honestly, I'm not sure how much of it is to do with the fact I went to seminary, things just worked out that way. What I will say is that I have hosted many, many seminary girls over the years and the overwhelming majority have no desire to live here long term. Some of them enjoy sem but are more than happy to go back home at the end of the year and some of them are very critical of the country as a whole and admit that they are really not enjoying themselves. A few would be willing to live here for a year or two after marriage but I have not met any who have expressed an intense, burning desire to stay. This all has been very surprising to me, but for the most part they seem to come so that they can check off one more experience off their lists.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 12:08 am

amother Valerian wrote:

I don’t think so.
It takes a certain personality to go to sem in EY.
It shows you’re independent, can think on your own, can make good financial choices, etc. Some girls who need to stay home and be with mommy and daddy and it’s hard to cut the cord-they’re not looking to marry an independent type and might need to mature more before getting married. I totally get it. It’s completely a type of personality. Like would you want to marry a boy who didn’t dorm in yeshiva and stayed home and slept at home and his parents made his lunch and did his laundry etc ? Probably not. That would be considered weird in many circles. Modern Orthodox very often go away to college. Going away is what happens after high school in every community all over the world.

Reality

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 1:02 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I'm sorry, that is ridiculous.

For most girls, being in seminary in Israel means their parents have enough money to send them. They are not independent at all if they have mommy and daddy's credit card.

There are very few girls who go to seminary in Israel that are spending 100% their own money.

Regarding my own background and feelings, I have written many times that I grew up poor. There was no money for seminary in Israel. I went to local seminary, which I paid for myself and got a job and went to school.

Only someone living in a rich little bubble would ever think that going off to another country on your parents dime shows independence. The rest of us know being responsible for your own bills and showing up to work on time etc is the real test of adulthood.

Oddly enough, from my very large grade, the majority who went to seminary in Israel, I am one of a handful that actually made aliyah. Maybe it's because I actually know how to be happy with less and grew up less attached to "stuff". Maybe it's because I grew up in a home where we loved Israel and never disparaged the modern day reality of what we have and thank Hashem for it.

amother

Raspberry

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:02 am

Reality wrote:

Totally agree!

amother

Mintgreen

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 2:02 am

married1234 wrote:

I was in seminary for a full year and had an awful experience. I did not belong at the school I was at, and actually got suspended at one point (it was for something very minor, my parents were furious). I found it to be a very similar experience to what you’re describing, and I didn’t have many friends since I was on a different wavelength than the other girls.
But, I fell in love with Israel. I spent a lot of time by myself, and went to explore whenever I had a minute to myself.
I wanted to live there after seminary, but since I had no financial support, and my husband wasn’t learning, there wasn’t much of a reason to go.
I want to go back so badly, but have not been able to since coming home from seminary. I do hope to go back as soon as possible though.

I do hope you can come ASAP. You sound very sweet and should come see Israel without the thoughts of what your Schooling was like.

amother

Peru

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 4:55 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Yes I do. For various reasons we can’t make Aliya, but we are looking to purchase a home there, and we hope to take each of our children on individual trips as they reach certain milestones, as well as taking family trips. My husband also goes about every two months.

Having a home sitting empty for most of the year is not really helpful for Israel.

Unless you plan to rent it out to long term tenants.

Many families who actually live in EY and want to buy property can't afford it, one of the reasons (not the only one) is wealthy families from Chul buying homes that sit empty.

amother

Eggshell

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 6:45 am

I can’t talk because I grew up in e”y. I can tell you growing up I felt no connection at all. It was all taken for granted. I actually resented my parents for making that choice of raising 5 kids in a 60 sqm apartment just for the sake of living there. My father worked like a dog and still couldn’t afford paying for a bus ride. So now I’m a little complexed about it. I live in America and have a hard time differentiating between missing the land or missing the culture and people. I’m curious which one of it is what people connect to. When you say love for e”y do you mean spiritually or culturally cuz those are two very different things.

amother

Freesia

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 7:52 am

amother OP wrote:

Do you still have a very strong connection to the land?

I feel like one main benefit of going for me was forging a personal connection with EY and a yearning to return, a real feeling that it’s my home. That’s important to me especially in times like these where I’m able to daven for EY with heart and sincerity, picturing the land as I knew it for a year and a half and all the people I met.

Is that connection possible if someone doesn’t live there for a period of time?

Yes, of course!! The minute I landed there I fell in love with it. Have only been there twice. I have a constant yearning to go back

amother

Daffodil

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:54 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Can you please explain what that means? Even minimum wage, you can pay for a bus ride.
Im truly sorry you had such a hard experience.