Can Boys Learn Compassion?

Posted: Wed, Aug 13 2008, 8:50 am Post subject: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

I had a discussion with someone yesterday about compassion being a "Jewish" trait. After all, I said, am yisroel was known for being "rachmanim", "Bayshanim" and "Gomlei Hasadim" = merciful, modest and doing good things (bad translation, but the meaning is compassionate).

Why are our MO religious girls compassionate, I asked, while the MO boys certainly are not in general? After all they all got a good Jewish education...

The answer I got was that girls are compassionate naturally, it's the "mother instinct". But boys aren't.

So what about Chinuch, I asked?

The answer was surprising. "to teach boys to be men you can't teach them to be compassionate."

So I said, "But it's a Jewish trait for everyone, not only girls."

And the answer I received was, that when you have to teach boys to drive tanks and shoot missles and kill (yeah, nothing like having boys in the army), you can't teach them to be compassionate, that can come later. It's certainly not part of the Israeli religious education today to be compassionate.

But the charedim, I said, charedi boys and men I know here in EY are compassionate.

Sure, they are "wusses", was the answer I got (I was talking to someone Dati Leumi) are they trained for the army? Dati Leumi education for boys sure has to teach them to be "fighters". Charedim can afford to teach their boys to be "wusses".

But then I brought an example of someone who is Litvish, in his late 50s, that we work with, who had done a full army service and was always charedi. He got full charedi education, was a "fighter" in the army and certainly not a "wuss" in anyone's defintion, but...he is a very compassionate man.

My discussion partner didn't have an answer.

So here's my question. Can boys be taught to be compassionate without turning them into "wusses"? Can we make them into men while keeping them compassionate at heart?
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Platinum Member Joined: Aug 12 2007 Posts: 20496

I think some boys are just born with compassion. One of my sons is particularly compassionate and people comment on it. But he's not a wuss the way you would think of it. He is nerdy though. The army will either take care of it or not - they have three years less two weeks to do the job.
Hmm, I think my eldest is also compassionate. Maybe it's something they are born with or get from their ahem, mother?

Posted: Wed, Aug 13 2008, 11:15 am Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

Raising Cain comes to mind. It's a wonderful book that shows how we can foster emotional growth in boys.
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Posted: Wed, Aug 13 2008, 12:36 pm Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

Platinum Member Joined: Jan 23 2008 Posts: 9074

Fiedasima, why did you even have this discussion? What a load of hooey!

Some boys are compassionate & some girls aren't. And so? It's probably due to a combination of nature v. nurture.

As for Dati Leumi v Charedim v MO v whatever: see above.

Posted: Wed, Aug 13 2008, 1:18 pm Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

Well the discussion was with my dh.
It came about because I had spent some time professionally lately with a group of people in my field, checking something with large groups of young Israeli men as opposed to large groups of Israeli young women in an emotional testing situation.
One of the most blatant differences is that we found a lot of compassion among the girls results and almost no compassion among the male results. There was follow up on this matter using personal interviews by professionals (it's part of a survey of the health ministry, the educational ministry and social welfare agencies.)

I was very surprised by it, however when I started thinking about it I realized that we have that same situation at home. The girls are pretty compassionate (two more, one a bit less) but the boys weren't really compassionate at all.

I ran it by the kids and got the same response from them that I later got from DH. The boys and girls all said "in this country boys can't be wusses, we have to be MEN and be very strong because we will go through things where we have to be tough!"

So I wanted to see if this is an Israeli thing or what...

Posted: Wed, Aug 13 2008, 8:29 pm Post subject:

I have to agree with bubby ... it's a personality trait - you either have it or you don't - as with anything elsei suppose it can be learned to a lesser degree ...
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Posted: Mon, Aug 18 2008, 3:24 am Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

How exactly do you define 'compassion' or how was it presented to the young men surveyed? Obviously nature and nurture have a most definitive play-as I know many cold, distant, hard and uncaring women and many warm, nurturing, caring and helpful men. As within the Israli army itself, I've heard many stories of friendship, warmth, compassion and etc. between fellow soliders. Perhaps they are not compassionate to the enemy of war and feel the need for the psychological preparation of the possibility of death or death of a loved one. I wonder how exactly the nature of the study was conducted......

Posted: Mon, Aug 18 2008, 3:35 am Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

Leah, compassion was defined there as being aware of the needs, emotional and physical of the people that you are with and if they are people you care about, wanting to do something active to help meet those needs.

An example that was given was remembering someone's birthday, anniversary, or knowing that someone you care for really likes X (could be chocolate, could be flowers, could be a book about philosophy, could be whatever) and going the extra mile to get it for them (if you could afford it of course) just to make them happy.

Another example was to try to refrain from saying things or doing things that you know would bother or offend people that you were with to whom you were close.

The examples that were NOT given were between husband and wife. This was children to parents, parents to children, best friends, brothers, sisters, very close first cousins, grandparents and the like.

There was also a second group of examples with people you didn't know. There ranged from helping a woman with a baby carriage and two small children cross the street, helping a blind or old person in a store - not one that came up to you and asked in any of the cases, just someone that YOU saw there.

In other words, the initiative always had to come from YOU and not from the other person.

As I wrote, across the board the girls were light years away from the boys here and in most cases, anything that had to do with "caring" was considered wussy by the boys (DL and MO) and not done.
Interesting....

Diamond Member Joined: Jan 01 2008 Posts: 4023

If woman/girls/mothers have more compassion than men/boys/fathers, how does it coincide with the words we say on Rosh Hashonah after blowing shofar “rachmeinu kerachem AV al bonim” – Have compassion like a FATHER to his children?

Diamond Member Joined: Jun 24 2008 Posts: 3323

Absolutely yes. Boys and men can be compassionate. It has nothing to do with being MO or Charedi or whatever and everything to do with their nature and the environment they grew up in. I know many very compassionate, sweet and loving VERY MACHO (read, not wusses) MO men.

Posted: Mon, Aug 18 2008, 11:24 am Post subject: re: Can Boys Learn Compassion?

to everyone, not just to their wives?