Formula feeding. Let's put it into perspective

amother

Tiffanyblue

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:38 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

I forgot to mention that there is a super rare condition where the woman is missing certain milk making glands in their breasts. A woman like that will certainly not have enough milk. I also mentioned women who have hormonal issues l. Third reason for not having enough milk is really the baby where the baby isn’t nursing effectively (muscle tone issues, tongue tie, etc) and that causes the milk supply to drop. Other than that most women should be making enough milk. First two issues arnt really fixable, last issue could possibly be fixed but will require a lot of effort and may not be worth it for the mother to try to fix . My point is that absent these issues when every second woman is saying she doesn’t make enough milk but she’s handing a formula bottle after every feeding then it’s probably not a milk making issue. Everyone can do what they want and there is nothing wrong with formula at all but if the woman is super devastated about it then she should be aware that absent these issues she probably can nurse her baby with a little education and help. No one is saying she should or she needs to but if she do badly wakes to nurse (for herself and not for society) then there are options

Again, if they manage to fix their issue then great! If not, please give formula rather than saying "I don't have enough milk, but I really want to nurse"

I've heard this from a few women and they are simply not giving their children the nutrients they desperately need. I would call that neglect and it most definitely will not help with their bonding.

amother

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:42 pm

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

Okay the answer here is for women to be properly educated if they want to nurse.

If their baby is not gaining properly, and they are aware of how to nurse on demand, then... formula.

Don't you find it amusing that a person can be a well educated, well rounded individual in most areas, yet when she formula feeds all of sudden she's 'not educated' and 'claims she doesn't have milk but she does'.

It doesn't sound like your mom was uneducated!

amother

Amber

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:44 pm

Amother Midnight -

Actually, a LOT of education and help. The circles I travel in (regular Lakewood) are simply not set up for a successful breastfeeding journey. And across the board is a massive dearth of education on breastfeeding. First myth is that its just "supposed to work" without any special education or lifestyle choices.

I find it ironic how most woman learn so much more about childbirth than about breastfeeding. Honestly, having the baby is a whole lot less complicated in than nursing it.

(I did not say everyone should breastfeed! I did not say everyone can breastfeed! I only said for those who want to, it's not nearly as easy or intuitive as it appears.)

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:51 pm

amother OP wrote:

not sure why it’s amusing but I have a masters degree and I consider myself to be educated and I wasn’t aware that my baby wanting to nurse around the clock was normal and I venture to say that I’m not the only “idiot” out there who thought this . It took the lactation consultant coming with a scale and weighing my baby and showing me that the baby gained to not give formula bottles . Not sure whose mother this is you are dissing or why you are getting defensive. I’m not putting down formula at all. There’s definitely a huge place for it. Get a mother can have gallons of milk and still choose to formula feed and that’s totally 100% cool. My posts are for the mothers who very badly want to nurse but think they can’t

amother

Pewter

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:52 pm

This education nonsense is ridiculous.

I tried to nurse my children. I utilized the lactation support in the hospital. I hired the supposed "top" lactation consultant in my city. I tried all the tips and trick and contraptions. I read books and articles online. It did NOT WORK. I was in tremendous pain, bleeding, my babies were miserable and constantly screaming. I was exhausted. I did all the things yet I had no milk. Squeeze my boob and nothing would come out. Not a drip.

And because of all you self-righteous, know-it-all women who placed such doubt in my mind that this could be my reality, it was SO hard for me to give in and give formula. Why did I have to feel so bad about myself and my body? Because you just can't keep your preaching to yourself.

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:52 pm

amother Amber wrote:

Amother Midnight -

Actually, a LOT of education and help. The circles I travel in (regular Lakewood) are simply not set up for a successful breastfeeding journey. And across the board is a massive dearth of education on breastfeeding. First myth bring its just "supposed to work" without any special education or lifestyle choices.

I found it ironic how most woman learn so much more about childbirth than about breastfeeding. Honestly, having the baby is a whole lot less complicated in than nursing it.

(I did not say everyone should breastfeed! I did not say everyone can breastfeed! I only said for those who want to, it's not nearly as easy or intuitive as it appears.)

I cannot like this post enough!

amother

Hunter

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:00 pm

I technically produce (just) enough milk but my babies cannot suck strong enough. I also have a slow let down, I have never leaked in my life. The circus I went through with each one to try and breastfeed deserves a medal. My babies just get on the breast and cry and scream.
May you never know the emotional torment of a baby crying out of frustration at your breast while all you're trying to do is feed them. So many tears from both of us, until my husband and mother said, enough. This is destroying you and the baby isn't gaining (literally and figuratively). When I switched to formula feeding time became a time of connection and love instead of guilt, exasperation and turmoil.
Every single baby I try again, just in case. I spend the money on the lactation consultants, I rejoin the circus of plumping and supplemental tube machines, laying down, in the dark, songs and dances until the baby is screaming at the breast and starts losing weight.
I cry and cry when I give that first formula bottle. I've been to therapy to grieve this inability to feed my children the "best" way.
Thank you lamplighter for understanding!
The last thing any of us need is judgement.

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

Again, how do you know?

how do I know what? That giving formula cuts supply? That’s a scientific proven fact, how I know that mothers are giving formula before weighing the baby? The mothers themselves told me. They would call me crying that they want to nurse but their babies are starving? So I said oy that’s terrible ? How do you know baby is starving? He always wants to nurse. I would ask about wet and dirty diapers and they would assure me there’s plenty of that . So yes I helped 5 mothers successfully nurse who were ready to stop because their babies were supposedly starving. Now before you all kill me I assured them that they should not feel pressured and formula is totally ok (I even offered to talk to one of their mothers in law who I felt would make a comment). They all wanted to nurse . Second I made them all go to thei doctors for weight check .

amother

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:00 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Maybe open your own thread.

This thread is for those who formula feed, knowing that IT IS THE ONLY WAY to feed their babies.

Not for those who want to stand on their soapbox and claim that all woman can and should feed if only they wew educated.

amother

Hunter

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:01 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

THIS.

amother

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:03 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

Yep this thread is for you. You sure don't sound 'uneducated'!

amother

Amber

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:05 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

I'm sorry for your loss. (Because yes, not being able to breastfeed when you really want to is a loss. Not being able to breastfeed when you don't want to isn't, but you clearly did.)

And it is absolutely true that there are women who cannot breastfeed no matter what.

At the same time, with enough education AND social supports in place, most - but by no means all - women can breastfeed.

And perhaps if all women had the education to know what's normal and what's not, they would be able to know for themselves if they can breastfeed or not. And they wouldn't have to go through what you did. They would know what needs to be tried, and if that fails, they would know it doesn't work for them. And they would be able to let go of their breastfeeding dream and move on to all the other wonderful ways they are their baby's best mama.

And the women who can't breastfeed because they're lacking the ability to do it what it takes, due to their other responsibilities etc, can also let go of their dream without guilt.

And the woman who choose not to breastfeed because they don't want to do what it takes, can also move on without judgment.

That's my wish. Unfortunately, reality is not that way. Everyone suffers from a lack of education and most people suffer from judgment. It's a lose-lose all around. Women get blamed for their choices or lack of choices. We need more opportunity, more compassion, and less judgment for everyone.

amother

Amber

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:11 pm

amother OP wrote:

That's not how you labeled this thread in the title. It's not what you wrote clearly in your OP.

You opened up a discussion and you don't own it now.

As a formula feeding mother, there is nothing in the title or OP that implies it's only for people with IGT or other idiopathic causes of low supply.

I am not judging people for formula feeding. But neither is it right to judge people for feeling grief. Or denying anyone else's feeding experience that differs from yours.

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:16 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

I didn’t nurse my last baby.
I have too much milk and I hate it.
So I didn’t.
I’m so happy about it. My baby is happy and well loved and I have zero guilt.

I don’t know why everyone has to justify or make excuses.

great post . No one should feel that they need to nurse. My posts are aimed at the women who really want to nurse but feel like they can’t (and maybe some takka can’t)

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:21 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

I never said that every single woman can or should nurse and the fact that you felt pressured to nurse because of others is not right. My posts are not to you. My posts are to the women who want to nurse but feel like they shouldn’t even mother trying because they don’t have enough milk and they (like myself) didn’t know certain things . For what it’s worth you were likely in pain because your babies didn’t nurse effectively and not because your body doesn’t know how to make milk. And btw no milk comes out when I squeeze my boobs either. Not even a drop. And I 100% agree that these issues are not always fixable.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:23 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

There is a time and place for everything. This was a thread opened for formula feeders who have been educated and know about all that you preach, yet still settled for formula because of personal circumstances.

Coming in here and spouting your words of wisdom is a tone deaf response. It is like coming on to an infertility thread and posting about how to properly dtd, or how to figure out your cycles. And then proceeding to give said advice repeatedly to them even when they inform you that they are under the care of big doctors.

Now, if there's a thread where a mom is having trouble breastfeeding and wants some solutions, your advice may be well received there. But here in this thread, your words seem to be coming from someone who cannot read the room or from someone extreme in their views and lacks understanding to others.

Can I ask what you were hoping to accomplish by posting on this particular thread?

amother

Midnight

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:28 pm

amother Hunter wrote:

amen to the Bracha but it’s too late for me. I too suffer from slow let down. It didn’t happen right away . It started when one of my babies was about 6 months old Sometimes it’s worse than others and I have had times where it just wasn’t happening and then baby crying and me getting anxious because it’s not happening and that not helping matters. It’s definitely awful. I remember davening to hashem for the letdown and said it’s not for me it’s for my baby. And yes if that’s your reality all the time then I would 100% tell the mom not to nurse. The pain of that is too much to bear. Side note, why is there like zero info the on internet about slow letdown. They just tell you to look at pics of your bay or waterfalls and it does not work at all! Is this just a super rare phenomenon? My posts have nothing to do with judgement and everything to do with encouraging moms to reach out for help and knowledge if (and ONLY if) they really want it so badly (for themselves and not for others)