Do israelis know how to carry a tune?

amother

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:03 am

Rappel wrote:

You might be on to something

Listen to this mashup of morale songs that the IDF Rabbanut put together. It's very much on tune.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5eJqw0t3e9c

Do they sing them differently in America?

Love it. Mostly on tune but it does have a bit of the tone issue I’m talking about.
Happy to be the ima version Simon Cowell of Israel Got Talent.

Rappel

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:10 am

amother OP wrote:

Love it. Mostly on tune but it does have a bit of the tone issue I’m talking about.
Happy to be the ima version Simon Cowell of Israel Got Talent.

I think I know what you're talking about now. The intonations and note patterns sound off to you.

There are free courses on music as a science, and you might want to look into it.

Basically: musical patterns have a history, and that DNA gets passed down along with subjective interpretations.

Just one example: if you look up Chinese funeral music, it would sound really happy to you. To someone in China, it's actually a very mournful pattern. The music interpretations we have are objective, and are learned from our environment.

Modern Israeli music is heavily influenced by both European and Middle Eastern "musical DNA," and the things that sound off to you are probably the intonations and lilts that are born of the Middle Eastern half.

For contrast, look up some old kibbutz songs, and you'll hear purely European Israeli music. It will probably sound very musical to you, despite it being sung by the same people whom are singing the blended songs. I'll try to find some.

Last edited by Rappel on Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total

WhatFor

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:11 am

amother OP wrote:

Lol! I’m obsessed with good singing! Bring it on!

Good, I'm not done!
Very Happy

I'm not sure what you're comparing to what. If you ever encounter a random group of people singing spontaneously, especially if they're cheering about something (think like at a ballgame or at karaoke) you'll hear a huge mix, and if the goal is to scream for a cause, probably lots of pitchiness (and many of them will have lost their voice the next day).

If you encounter a choir giving a street performance, or a family singing the same shalom aleichem they sing together every Friday night, or a bunch of chassidim at a tisch they attend every single week and sing the same songs every single week, it's probably going to sound more in sync. This probably has a lot to do with the level of practice, familiarity with the song, tune, and how they sound together, and the purpose, which is enjoying and internalizing the singing or the meaning of the words, and not promoting a cause or ideal. (Also, side note: families who can sing often sound nicer than strangers who can sing because their instrument - shape of mouth, vocal chords, etc, are more likely to be more similar, and therefore they blend more beautifully.)

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:19 am

Rappel wrote:

Interesting post. The trup from megilla comes to mind, the pasuk where it switches keys to that of Eicha. I always found the Eicha trup to be hauntingly sorrowful, and wondered if that is because of association or its inherent sound.

WhatFor

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:22 am

amother OP wrote:

One example of what I meant
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WpbkXzbKSto
Again, I love their passion!!!!

These are people cheering and chanting. They're on a battlefield and declaring a cause. Yes, I know it's a Chanukah prayer, but they're not singing in a chorus and they aren't in a position where they can relax or meditate on what they're singing.

On that point alone, lehavdil, go find a clip from the stands of an American ballgame and see if Americans there are singing that much better.

Now to add to the above: when was the last time these soldiers slept in a bed? How much sleep did they get last night? How much water do you think they're drinking while on the field to lubricate their vocal cords? How long have they been outdoors and what's the humidity/dryness out there? How long that day have they already been actively moving around? When they're in combat, do you think they're talking to each other in a normal tone or do you think maybe they need to raise their voices constantly to communicate over the shooting and explosions? How are their hormones (and therefore voices among many other things) affected by the threat of living under gunfire and witnessing some of their friends be murdered r"l?

Most Americans singing together had a normal night sleep last night, typical meals, typical water supply, maybe they worked out for an hour or two in the past forty eight hours before having a shower. If it was hot outside they were in the air conditioning, and if it was cold, they had their heat on.

I wouldn't form an opinion on anyone's capacity to sing based on how they sounded while chanting on deployment during active combat.

essie14

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:26 am

WhatFor wrote:

Exactly. Exactly. Every word.

amother

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:26 am

Rappel wrote:

Makes sense.
I’m not that obsessed to take courses but I’m glad to see that people don’t think I’m completely off the wall for asking.
Also, I couldn’t upload the clips that I’m referring to. I’d love to give examples so you people don’t think I’m just trying to be rude.
Meanwhile, I’m enjoying the beautiful videos posted here!

amother

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:30 am

WhatFor wrote:

You’re 100% right. I was just trying to find an example on YouTube because I can’t copy paste the clips I’ve seen on news sites that sparked this discussion!
Honestly, I feel horrible talking negatively on such heartfelt videos in such crazy sad times. Maybe this thread was a mistake!

amother

Hyacinth

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:37 am

essie14 wrote:

Maybe the Israeli ha'avara bothers you because you're not used to it.

I think you have to cut people some slack. Mourners breaking into song at a funeral for a chayal didn't exactly rehearse beforehand. They're crying and expressing deep deep pain through song.
May you never know such pain.
I've been at military funerals. You can't imagine the pain.

Total side note, but I would've wanted it to be pointed out to me.
It's Havara הברה, not Ha'avara העברה which has a different meaning.

WhatFor

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:45 am

I can't leave out a Raviv Kaner appreciation post:

An audition before he was officially a singer

Heartbreaking song he wrote about friends he lost in a prior battle in Gaza Sad

Unfortunately still relevant.

Beautiful cover of yerushalayim shel zahav

Just causally being able to sound this good on a phone camera recording while singing Shir lamaalot from his porch (during covid).

Taking a back seat to Ninet Tayeb

WhatFor

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:48 am

amother OP wrote:

But how can it be a mistake when it gave me a platform to spam everyone with a bunch of YouTube videos? And this isn't over yet. Not by a long shot.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 11:17 am

I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend OP, but that was a really....ummm...narish question. Israelis are people just like everyone else. If you took a sample of random untrained Americans or Indians or Jordanians or Ecuadorians or Ukrainians and recorded them singing, you'd get the identical results. Some people are great singers--there's no lack of great Israeli singers, some have even won in Eurovision if I'm not mistaken--and some couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. JUST LIKE EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. Israeli music is a mix of many different genres of music, both Western and Middle Eastern. As has been said, Mizrachi (Middle Eastern)music uses a different scale from the Western scale, so it may sound odd, flat, and monotonous to you, but that has nothing to do with being able or unable to carry a tune.