In town vs. out of town

sushilover

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 6:19 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

That’s a thing that people made up. When the people who live “out of town” go away, what do they say? They say “I’m going OUT OF TOWN” meaning out of where they live. It has nothing to do with city size. Where you live is in town. When you leave that town,you go out of town. If you live in London and you go to LA, you are still going out of town. I have never heard a non Jewish person refer to any place other than where they live as in town.

All phrases are things that people made up. Maybe it was made up by new Yorkers. Maybe it was made up by out of towners to differentiate themselves from New Yorkers.
Regardless, the phrase exists, and it's not hurtful or even wrong, unless you want to get pedantic.

Ema of 5

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 6:28 pm

sushilover wrote:

But it IS wrong! Someone who lives outside of any given community lives out of town to the people there, but not to herself. People come here and write “I live out of town” except they DONT, because they live in town to the town they are in.
I wish I knew where it actually came from, and why it caught on to the point that people say they live out of town.

rnbgmother

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 8:26 pm

I think this is kind of dumb (sorry emaof5 I usually like the stuff you post). I live OOT and the reason the delineation makes sense is because it’s an easy way to give people on this site or in real life a bit of context as to your environment. “In town” generally refers to Monsey, Lakewood, Brooklyn (possibly Monroe if your Chassidish?) as those areas have the largest Jewish populations and infrastructure in the US. When I say I’m from “OOT” it connotes a different vibe (usually smaller, warmer, people tend to know each other, etc) and also means we have a much smaller selection of kosher food, educational choices for kids, tznius clothes, etc. If I make a post and say I’m an OOTner and I’m trying to figure out what to wear at an IT wedding it gives some context as to where I am coming from.

zaq

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 8:40 pm

BatyaEsther wrote:

That is not even accurate.
Nobody here would refer to Riverdale, Teaneck, or Passaic as “in town”

AAMOF, when my sons were in Camp Agudah playing sports leagues, boys hailing from all of the above, plus Manhattan, were in the "OOT" league.

However, I must disagree that with your statement that NO ONE HERE would call these places "in town." There's that Brooklyn-Monsey-Lakewood bias. No one from that Bermuda Triangle would call those places "in town." People who actually live in Riverdale, Teaneck, Passaic, Manhattan and so on have a different POV.

Dolphin1

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 8:43 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

It’s similar to saying “I’m going to the city”, even if you live in a different city.

zaq

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 8:48 pm

sushilover wrote:

Regardless, the phrase exists, and it's not hurtful or even wrong, unless you want to get pedantic.

Call me pedantic, then. Just don't call me late to dinner.

"OOT" IS hurtful and wrong. There is a distinct aroma of chauvinism and superiority about "in town." People in the large charedi population centers within a three-hour drive of Manhattan see themselves as more savvy, better educated and with-it Jewishly, more sophisticated, more stylish--in short, more everything than people from elsewhere.

The Happy Wife

Wed, Jan 10 2024, 8:55 pm

zaq wrote:

Agree. It is othering, and it is divisive.

I think usage has become so common that people say it without intending to be negative. However, phrasing itself is negative.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 6:08 am

rnbgmother wrote:

Quote:

“In town” generally refers to Monsey, Lakewood, Brooklyn

(possibly Monroe if your Chassidish?) as those areas have the largest Jewish populations and infrastructure in the US. When I say I’m from “OOT” it connotes a different vibe (usually smaller, warmer, people tend to know each other, etc) and also means we have a much smaller selection of kosher food, educational choices for kids, tznius clothes, etc. If I make a post and say I’m an OOTner and I’m trying to figure out what to wear at an IT wedding it gives some context as to where I am coming from.

Ok, Im just going to say it, monsey, lakewood and brooklyn have the biggest charedi communities.
But not the biggest frum communities over all. And now I understand the whole in town thing. And why I never heard of it.
It really is yet another way to make people feel not nice.
Sigh.

salt

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 6:30 am

I'm British, so I don't claim to know for sure, but they way I understand it being called 'in town' is the more derogatory term, not being 'out of town'.
In-town means snobby and materialistic.

But maybe it goes both ways - in-towners are looked down upon by oot-ers, and vice versa.

sushilover

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 9:39 am

zaq wrote:

Agree to disagree. Most in towners do not see themselves as more savvy, better educated, or any of the other things you listed.
We see ourselves as more knowledgeable about in town norms, just as OOTers are more knowledgeable about OOT norms.

Anyone who is snobby or superior has a problem and it has nothing to do with the phrase "in town".

Pink Flamingo

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 9:43 am

zaq wrote:

This is total projection. I live in NY and I don't see myself this way at all. I'm definitely not sophisticated or stylish lol. And my educations is the same as everyone else

sushilover

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 9:44 am

I just really don't want our community to go go down the route of language policing and making it socially acceptable to assume ill intentions because someone used an innocent phrase. We even see it here . The jump from "it drives me crazy when people use a technically inaccurate phrase," to "its othering and shows that you think you are better than us if you say out of town. "

This kind of thinking is what lead to universities and industries banning words like breast feeding and master bedroom.

rnbgmother

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:03 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I wrote in the US, as it’s generally an American term. Obviously communities Israel have very large Jewish populations. Correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t think of another concentrated area in the US with as large of a frum Jewish (MO, yeshivish, chassidish, etc) population as the ones I mentioned. Possibly 5 towns or Teaneck? But I I think people would hesitate to call those places OOT anyway.
(As an aside I mainly hear the term used by yeshivish people anyway).
The point is, I don’t feel it’s a derogatory term at all, just a useful descriptor in conversation.

sushilover

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:11 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I don't like the term chareidi and I never use it to describe myself.
I find it othering to group us that way. Wink

(The first sentence is true. The second isn't. Use whatever language you'd like. I won't assume you are trying to label me negatively)

Ema of 5

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:15 am

sushilover wrote:

I totally agree with you here. I’m not looking to bash or to “other” or to “us vs. them.” My point was really just to point out that, technically, everyone is in town to where they live. I live in NY now, so NY is my in town. But growing up, Miami was my in town.

Blessing1

Thu, Jan 11 2024, 10:15 am

Tova wrote:

Brooklyn
Lakewood
Monsey

I know people from Brooklyn that consider Monsey OOT. It makes me roll my eyes & chuckle, they make it seem as if Monsey is at the other end of the world....