Going into debt for a luxury

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:59 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Absolutely, and I understand that financial constraints can make it challenging to allocate funds for self-care or treats. In such situations, it becomes crucial to focus on essentials and necessities. While it might not be possible to indulge in non-essential expenses, finding small, low-cost ways to prioritize your well-being is still important. This might include free or low-cost activities, seeking emotional support from friends or family, or exploring community resources that offer support. Remember that self-care doesn't always require spending money; it can also involve creating moments of relaxation and joy within your means.

Ok thank you. I didn't say anywhere that I don't know this. It feels really awful to be lectured about this, as if I don't know as if we aren't trying our best.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:59 am

doodlesmom wrote:

Hi all,
I know that imamother has a certain opinion, but bh in my community we are okay with helping out those less fortunate even to supply luxuries!

We have gemachim for may different thing people here consider luxuries.
We have food pantries and soup kitchens to offer fleishigs for during the week. And beautiful shabbos meals.
I’m affiliated with an optical store who constantly donate glasses and lenses for needy.
There are clothing stores that help out, and organizations that pay…

And I believe that even if sometimes I’m upset that our standard of living gets raised by this, I am still happy to be part of a community that’s okay with sponsoring luxuries for the poor!

Hashem should bentch you tenfold

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:19 am

Sometimes I just want nice clothing. Not expensive but nice, stylish. I'm a good shopper in general I find decently priced stuff. Once in a while I "splurge " and buy myself something new. Im talking about $30 or $20. Not to have excess, but just so I can feel good about myself to have enough clothes to go out and look put together. . And I put it on the credit card.

But according to imamother I need to feel immensely guilty for buying clothes that I feel good in.

Trademark

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:36 am

amother OP wrote:

On imamother anything beyond bread and water, if you can't afford it, is a luxury. Don't take it to heart. In real life most people function differently than what is portrayed over here.

20 or $30 for a new piece of clothing in my opinion is not a luxury and more than okay to "splurge" on every once in awhile.

I would happily give tzedakah so a woman can buy herself once in awhile a $30 top that makes her feel good.

amother

Lotus

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:40 am

Trademark wrote:

I agree. I’d gladly give tzedakah for that.

But not for $200 coats and shoes for kids

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:47 am

Trademark wrote:

I would happily give tzedakah so a woman can buy herself once in awhile a $30 top that makes her feel good.

OPs husband wouldn't be happy taking that.
That's why I suggested that they try taking help and pay it forward when they can.
in general it's a horrible feeling to be taking tzedaka. I look at it as part of the nisayon of not having enough money - having to humble ourselves to take.
The bigger problem is that all these gemachim, etc are focused on people who fit certain criteria. Not everyone who is pinching so hard is eligible.
Just recently there was an event in my neighborhood for women's clothing- giving away 3 items per person. My husband asked the gabaim to add me to the list but we were turned down because our income is over a certain amount. No one knows that I also have 3 children with hidden special needs who cost me a small fortune every month and are hardly eligible for any services. I know many people who went and came home with beautiful stuff - people who live on a way higher level than we do.
I suspect OP is hitting the same problem.

Trademark

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:51 am

amother Begonia wrote:

It was more a theoretical than advice to op. I was just pointing out that I don't consider it a luxury I would gladly give it to a person who needs it, versus a luxury I wouldn't necessarily give tzedakah for.

amother

Heather

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:53 am

I didn't read the whole thread.
But there's so much shades of grey in what is a luxury and not.

I was in a lot of pain and needed two root canals (that bh insurance covered partially).

But now, insurance is only willing to cover the build up and crown for one tooth.
Is a root canal crown a luxury? Or do I ask the dental clinic for a payment plan and pay $150 a month for the next year?

Or maybe I should just give up, and pull the tooth (and not deal with an implant). But it's a molar and I need the tooth to eat.

I mean I know I'll have half of Imamother telling me that the $1600 treatment is a luxury that I should save for and do it in 2 years.

And the other half of Imamother will tell me to go in debt.

amother

Tulip

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:54 am

amother OP wrote:

Ok thank you. I didn't say anywhere that I don't know this. It feels really awful to be lectured about this, as if I don't know as if we aren't trying our best.

Removed

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:56 am

amother Heather wrote:

If you've got a plan to pay it back, you can afford $150 per month, that's not the issue. The issue is going into debt WITHOUT a repayment plan.

amother

Tulip

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 10:57 am

amother OP wrote:

Absolutely, treating yourself to affordable, stylish clothing now and then is a reasonable way to practice self-care. It's essential to balance your needs and wants within your budget. Everyone has different circumstances, and comparing oneself to online opinions may not always reflect real-life situations. If this is a manageable and occasional expense for you, there's no need to feel guilty. It's about finding a balance that contributes to your well-being without compromising your financial stability.

amother

Heather

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:02 am

amother Begonia wrote:

If you've got a plan to pay it back, you can afford $150 per month, that's not the issue. The issue is going into debt WITHOUT a repayment plan.

And I disagree.
I don't know for sure that I'm going to have the $150 a month for the next year. I suspect there's going to be scrambling and maybe debt.
But I actually don't have a choice.

Dental/Medical debt is a insane.

A few years ago, when we were financially very bad, a family member passed out unexpectedly. Hatzola took the member to the hospital for fluids and tests.
Because of high deductibles, etc, we were thrown a $2500 bill that yes, we couldn't pay and had to go into debt for
(Bh we've since recovered).

So should we have declined the hospital trip because we couldn't afford the copays and deductibles?
Isn't root canals due to serious pain and functional teeth to eat also similarly important?

Some things are worth going into debt for, even if technically you could survive without.

Trademark

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:07 am

amother Heather wrote:

I always say this on here. Luxury versus necessity is not black and white.

For example a washing machine is technically a luxury you can survive without it and wash your clothes inthe sink. But most of us would understand that if a poor person needs one it's okay to provide from tzedakah funds.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:45 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Again I'm being lectured.
What if it's not a manageable expense? Am I hot allowed it?

It's very hard to balance when there is Zero wiggle room.

amother

Sienna

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:46 am

At this point in my life I've accepted that Hashem wants us to have debt. I try my best not to increase it unnecessarily, but there is no way to avoid it without causing severe collateral damage to the children and our own sanity.

I'm sure some things I buy others would disagree with, but in general I think that our spending is very frugal.

I will still go further into debt for anything I view as very important. I second and triple guess every expense, but when even food and utilities are causing debt, it's impossible to avoid.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:47 am

amother Heather wrote:

Ugh I'm in a ton of dental debt and have a hole in my mouth because I refuse to go into more dental debt. I fixed was what absolutely necessary (caused pain). Wish I had the means to fix it all

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:48 am

amother Begonia wrote:

If you've got a plan to pay it back, you can afford $150 per month, that's not the issue. The issue is going into debt WITHOUT a repayment plan.

I have no plan to pay it back. I wish I did

So because I didn't should be in pain? Because I can't pay for root canal I can't have one?

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:49 am

amother Sienna wrote:

Thanks. This has been me and I so appreciate this perspective.
Do you consider reasonable clothes for kids important? What about for yourself?

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 11:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I have no plan to pay it back. I wish I did

So because I didn't should be in pain? Because I can't pay for root canal I can't have one?

No, you should reach out to your local gabbai tzedaka and ask for help sooner than taking on debt. Debt is soul-crushing, inhumanizing, life-destroying.

Just btw, the responses which feel like a lecture are Chatgpt responses. Just ignore them.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 12:02 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

It's not so simple just to get tzedaka. They don't give money just because. I don't even know who a local gabbai tzedaka is.