Going into debt for a luxury

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:41 am

amother OP wrote:

I am not really understanding what you're saying here. So technically I can live without anything. I mean I can live in the street for goodness sake. Where do I draw the line?

That's my point. Only you know where to draw the line. Debt, as you well know, isn't something to take on lightly. But some things aren't a luxury per se or frivolous. Take the contact lenses example. Yes, they aren't cheap up front and aren't strictly necessary (because glasses do the same job). They are part vanity and part function. But - your child may benefit tremendously from having them. If she's already sensitive about her sight and glasses, moving to contacts can be such a life change for her. My daughter went through a phase where she wanted contacts because everyone else in 9th grade had. She was the only one in glasses. We invested in them, and it turns out she doesn't like wearing lenses except for simchas. They aren't comfortable for her. So we put aside feeling like we wasted X dollars on this, and she went back to her glasses happily. In your case, contacts can make your daughter feel amazing and help her be confident. Is that worth debt? To me, yes. I would absolutely take that on (even when I didn't earn as much and had to watch everything I spent) and make it work. Side hustle to raise the cash or whatever. Or make her a deal that she babysits to pay for the monthly refills, and you agree to pay the first trial set and appointment. The line between need and luxury isn't clear and varies by each person. I'm not saying anything new here. Several posters above said this as well. But no, you can't live on the street LOL. You will need to decide what's necessary or a luxury for yourself but all I was saying is debt, without a plan to get out, isn't worth it (generally). Obviously there are exceptions.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:44 am

amother OP wrote:

Thanks this is helpful.

Also what do you mean take from other people? Take from who?

I have a neighbor with a daughter a year older than mine, I said jokingly I'd love hand me downs, since then she gives me a lot.

When my son needed specific therapy, I asked our Rav about a free loan gemach and he found someone to sponsor, bH six months later, we were able to pay it forward.

When family offer help, I take it, even though it hurts me every time.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:47 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

So firstly the lenses are not the same as glasses. They work better than glasses. They help with myopia management. So they don't do the same job. But are they still a luxury? So you would get the lenses as a debt?

But it's easy to tell people not to take on debt when you have enough money to buy expensive purses. Sorry I just can't relate to that.
What if you need to either pay bills or eat but not both?

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:49 am

amother Begonia wrote:

I hear. I would love hand me downs I wouldn't be embarrassed at all. But I don't have anyone to give me that.

Family sends us money on occasion and I have no issue with that at all.

But we are still in a huge crunch month to month. We do the best we can, are super frugal, but frum life is expensive

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:58 am

What about if we need new deodorant/shampoo /soap etc. And we don't have the money for it.

DH likes a certain brand of deodorant and soap (degree) so can't buy at dollar store.

Where does the line end?

What if I hate making lunch. One day a week I want to treat myself. Does this mean I never get to because we aren't making it?

What if I like a specific food item, can I never ever buy it because it will put us in debt?

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:04 am

amother OP wrote:

Some type of shampoo etc is necessary but maybe not the specific one you like.
Yes, if you're not making it, you can't treat yourself.
Specific food item, you can't buy.

It's hard. Very hard. Very, very hard.
Carry on davening, we've had real miracles from time to time.

amother

Lotus

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:09 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

You've missed my point. Again. OP, anything you can live without is "luxury" so keep that in mind. Contacts? Not necessary when glasses will do. Clothes, go to Goodwill. You can't make the choice to spend because it isn't necessary. In fact, get hand me downs instead. On Imamother, there aren't shades of grey - only black and white. As I said, we aren't in the same income bracket so to me, the difference between one bag versus another is simply vanity. To you, a large cost difference can be the reason (or not) to take on the debt. The question is whether it's worth it or valid. Since I'm tone deaf and completely insensitive for being able to spend money, feel free to disregard my opinion. But remember- if you don't need it, it's a luxury. Glasses, better quality clothing when you can make do with goodwill, etc. In fact, cut everything that isn't strictly necessary because why should you spend more than you can? Little luxuries add up and who's to say you won't accidentally become tone deaf to those with less than you? You have meat twice a week? Oy. Tone deaf to those who can't afford meat. I did say cast those tomatoes but it's amazing how vicious women are.

I’m cracking up because you’re making these assumptions about begonia and me. A $1,000 bag is still a luxury item. It’s a luxury item for Taylor swift and for me and for you.

From Mulberry’s website:
Mulberry is a British luxury brand founded in Somerset in 1971. From a strong UK following, Mulberry's strategy is to grow as a global luxury lifestyle brand, focusing on product innovation and superior customer experience.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:42 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

I see plenty of people who CANT afford these things still wearing them so saying that just because I can purchase either, debt clearly isn't a problem for me is an assumption. Debt isn't an issue for me because as I said, I don't think frivolous things like this are worth taking debt on for. That's me showing off? No, dear. Me showing off is talking about how much I make a year or discussing what's in my bank account, or disclosing how many properties I own. I was making a point that every women needs a purse. Does she need a 1100 purse or 4k purse? Depends on many other factors. Need isn't the same for everyone. Those tight with money should wear a $20 bag because they don't need the luxury of a $60 purse? That's the catch. Needs a purse (because we all shouldn't wear shopping bags around!) But how much can she spend before it becomes a luxury? As I said from the beginning, I am not OP or in her position. I gave an example from my life so she can laugh that a woman is happy to have a deal that saves her 3k! Maybe it will make her think that contacts versus glasses aren't such a big difference and it can change her teens life and help her feel confident. But what do I know? I'm just a silly, out of touch showoff. 🤪

I think the issue here, and not to say you're a showoff, those are not my words. But the issue is that I'm asking about luxuries such as contact lenses, shampoo, very very basic clothing, small splurge on food, a $10 splurge on lunch.

So I am so happy that Hashem gave you the means for that. b"H you should continue to use your wealth in good health for many many years.

However, that's not what this post is about this post is from someone with a much lower income bracket. So its hard to hear. That's all. But I am working on my emunah that everything is from Hashem and I fargin what you have. I hope it brings you a lot of joy.

Just note that for othersluxuries are on a much smaller scale.

And yes I wish the contacts vs glasses was so easy for me to laugh off. The $400 every 3 months. I wish it was so easy. I daven every day that I can just laugh off all our money struggles and it be so easy to see the good in all of it. I think it's a lot easier to laugh off when you aren't struggling financially, but I'm working to get to a higher place.

lamplighter

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:56 am

I don't think anyone here can tell you when to put on the credit card and when not to.
These are hard decisions that you need to make with your husband. It does sound to me like you are doing your best. May hashem bentch you parnassah and harchava, this is such a big nisayon.

(In terms of the lunch, what I have done is chosen to make a cheaper supper or cut something else out that week to spend on myself here and there).

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:03 am

lamplighter wrote:

I don't really know how to cut down on supper. I buy a big package fo cutlets in bulk from Costco
Get chicken on the bone and chopped meat from a food pantry. Chicken last 4 dinners
Meat 2 dinners. And cutlets is about a months worth. Otherwise we do pasta or eggs or homemade pizza. I've been doing soups a lot more often. Not really sure where else to cut down.

Thank you, Hashem blessed us every second of every day, I hope we receive the blessing of having enough to cover our bills and luxuries really soon too.

lamplighter

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:11 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm not saying to cut down across the board. You already are so tight. I'm saying make eggs an extra 2 nights for supper for example, and treat yourself to a lunch or coffee and Danish once a month. Look at the little things and see where you can hold out or do lesser on once or twice to afford the little pick me up.

Also if u get gifts you can ask for gift cards for a lunch or coffee.

In my humble opinion $10 a month for a mother is something worth figuring out.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:24 am

I think there is room for debt as long as there is a plan to pay it back.I don't see where you can cut down much on your suppers based on your last post.
It's hard to be so tight. I daven your situation improves.
I just wanted to point out that in regards to contact lenses vs glasses. I have been wearing contacts since I am ten years old. I always buy about a four year supply at a time. It costs me about $300-$400. Bh my prescription has never changed. My ten year old recently wanted contacts. I let her get assuming that it will cost about the same as mine. I was very surprised when they gave her dailys (mine are monthlys) and it was $880 a year. For now I just did a six month supply as her prescription will go up. It may be cheaper if they can prescribe monthlys or bi weekly lenses as opposed to dailys. I always thought lenses weren't crazy expensive until now.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:41 am

amother Ivory wrote:

She needs special lenses because they're medical lenses for myopia control so I can't save on lenses.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:41 am

amother Ivory wrote:

And thank you for the support.

giftedmom

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:00 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Coming into such a thread and lecturing while at the same time maintaining that your luxury purchases are not luxury because you make so much money is cringe

doodlesmom

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:41 am

Hi all,
I know that imamother has a certain opinion, but bh in my community we are okay with helping out those less fortunate even to supply luxuries!

We have gemachim for may different thing people here consider luxuries.
We have food pantries and soup kitchens to offer fleishigs for during the week. And beautiful shabbos meals.
I’m affiliated with an optical store who constantly donate glasses and lenses for needy.
There are clothing stores that help out, and organizations that pay…

And I believe that even if sometimes I’m upset that our standard of living gets raised by this, I am still happy to be part of a community that’s okay with sponsoring luxuries for the poor!

amother

Tulip

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:41 am

amother OP wrote:

If there is never enough are you super frugal or do you treat yourself sometimes and go into debt for it?

Balancing financial responsibility is crucial, and it's generally advisable to avoid going into debt for non-essential expenses. Being frugal and budget-conscious can help you manage your finances wisely. However, it's also essential to allocate some funds for self-care and occasional treats, as long as they align with your overall financial goals. Striking a balance between frugality and occasional indulgence can contribute to a healthier financial mindset and lifestyle.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:48 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Ok but I'm taking about times when there is no extra for self care ever. Ever ever ever. So it sounds great in theory but some budgets don't allow for that

amother

Tulip

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 9:50 am

amother OP wrote:

Ok but I'm taking about times when there is no extra for self care ever. Ever ever ever. So it sounds great in theory but some budgets don't allow for that

Absolutely, and I understand that financial constraints can make it challenging to allocate funds for self-care or treats. In such situations, it becomes crucial to focus on essentials and necessities. While it might not be possible to indulge in non-essential expenses, finding small, low-cost ways to prioritize your well-being is still important. This might include free or low-cost activities, seeking emotional support from friends or family, or exploring community resources that offer support. Remember that self-care doesn't always require spending money; it can also involve creating moments of relaxation and joy within your means.