Going into debt for a luxury

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:46 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Depends on the clothes and the jewelry. $100 jewelry item from Macy's clearance versus a $900 coat... luxury is subjective in both examples. I personally would not carry debt for a luxury item. That said, bh I can afford quite a bit so to me, luxury is different than to someone of a different socioeconomic background where having meat twice a week is considered a luxury. I just bought myself a mulberry purse and am super excited it was on sale to $1,100. Is this luxury? To some. To me, not really. I could've bought a reserve YSL bag that I was thinking about for 4k. So going cheaper feels better but is it luxury? Again, depends who you ask. But either way, carrying debt for something frivolous like this is just silly.

Luxury is by definition something you can live without. There is no one in the world, including Melinda Gates, Princess Kate etc who can't live without a $1100 purse. Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean it isn't a luxury - it just means you can afford luxuries! If you can afford it, buy it with pleasure but it is a luxury.

Even a $4000 is a luxury. Come on, you could easily live with a $100 and it won't affect your life. Do what you want if you can afford it but it's ridiculous to say it isn't a luxury.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:07 am

lamplighter wrote:

Yes clothes can be a luxury but I'm answering the question asked....buying clothes for children who out grew theirs is not a luxury. Jewelry always is.
(In regards to putting on a CC)

But what if that clothing has to go on a credit card. Even if it's bought on sale. Does it then qualify as a luxury?
I mean technically I can go to goodwill and probably with enough luck put together tznius outfits with maxi dresses, but that's not fair to my kids, they want to look stylish.

So I spend, but not a lot, I always always buy on sale. (Except the new coat they wanted which was probably a luxury).

Is clothing a luxury if it will need to go on credit card? Again I'm not talking about crazy expensive, I'm talking about shopping sales.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:10 am

amother OP wrote:

Or dd wants contact lenses. They are helpful to control her myopia and she refuses to wear glasses. But they are so costly. It's probably not a luxury because it helps control the vision, but technically she can wear glasses and not add to our debt for that item.
Is that something worth going into debt for?

imasinger

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:29 am

IMNSVHO, teens whose parents say, "this is what we can spend, would you rather have contact lenses, sleep away camp, or a new coat?" are teaching them something very important.

One can also say, "we can't afford contact lenses right now, would you like to find some part time work to help pay for them?"

There's also probably something between horribly out of date maxi dresses from Goodwill, and going into debt to shop the sales.

What other options might you investigate? Are you OOT, or in a larger community?

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:37 am

imasinger wrote:

We definitely have done that. (I told them I'd buy a new coat or new boots, not both).
She is a bit young to start working (only a pre teen).
And DH doesn't feel it's right to ask her to pay for basics at this age. (shes not asking for tons of extra clothes, just basics. If she asked for something extra (like uggs) for sure I'd say she can work and pay).

But DH feels its not right to ask her to pay her way through her needs.

We are OOT although a very large community.

notshanarishona

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:50 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

It’s really tone deaf to come justify your $1100 purse when people are talking about affording food and clothing. Obviously if you can buy it and afford it then going into debt isn’t a problem for you and you are just showing off.

imasinger

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:15 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree, preteen is too young to do more than earn by helping around the house.

Are you and DH on the same page about what is a want and what is a need?

Is either of you capable of earning extra?

If your community is larger, you might want to see if there's a drum gemach for clothing. And if there isn't, perhaps you can help create one?

Because going into credit card debt is way worse in the long term than having older style clothing, and may lead to geater deprivation down the line.

Last edited by imasinger on Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tan

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:15 am

amother Begonia wrote:

So he'd rather go into debt that he can't repay than take tzedaka?

Obviously with food, work out what pays best. That poster was saying her kids wanted nuggets and frozen pizza which are neither healthy nor cost effective.

He's working on some certifications and degrees that will (hopefully) majorly up his earnings in the next 5 years. So he sees it as temporary.

I was saying that if I make budget meals of beans and rice my kids will go for nuggets. So it's not worth the budget meals. I can feed my whole family on $10 of meat or chicken if I shop carefully. It's not worth making a $3 dinner for the adults and a $5-10 dinner for the kids. (It also doesn't help that half the family can't have milk and we have an airborne egg allergy)

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:16 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I mean seriously. If I didn't need to go into debt for $1000 oh the things I would buy. To start with a new sheitel because mine are 10 years old.
To me that's a luxury not worth going into debt for though. Oh well, hope the sheitels give me many more good years.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:20 am

imasinger wrote:

Yes we are on the same page. We are working on the income piece that isn't the issue right now.

There is a frum gemach and it's helpful sometimes but it's hit or miss.

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:42 am

amother Begonia wrote:

You've missed my point. Again. OP, anything you can live without is "luxury" so keep that in mind. Contacts? Not necessary when glasses will do. Clothes, go to Goodwill. You can't make the choice to spend because it isn't necessary. In fact, get hand me downs instead. On Imamother, there aren't shades of grey - only black and white. As I said, we aren't in the same income bracket so to me, the difference between one bag versus another is simply vanity. To you, a large cost difference can be the reason (or not) to take on the debt. The question is whether it's worth it or valid. Since I'm tone deaf and completely insensitive for being able to spend money, feel free to disregard my opinion. But remember- if you don't need it, it's a luxury. Glasses, better quality clothing when you can make do with goodwill, etc. In fact, cut everything that isn't strictly necessary because why should you spend more than you can? Little luxuries add up and who's to say you won't accidentally become tone deaf to those with less than you? You have meat twice a week? Oy. Tone deaf to those who can't afford meat. I did say cast those tomatoes but it's amazing how vicious women are.

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 7:55 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I see plenty of people who CANT afford these things still wearing them so saying that just because I can purchase either, debt clearly isn't a problem for me is an assumption. Debt isn't an issue for me because as I said, I don't think frivolous things like this are worth taking debt on for. That's me showing off? No, dear. Me showing off is talking about how much I make a year or discussing what's in my bank account, or disclosing how many properties I own. I was making a point that every women needs a purse. Does she need a 1100 purse or 4k purse? Depends on many other factors. Need isn't the same for everyone. Those tight with money should wear a $20 bag because they don't need the luxury of a $60 purse? That's the catch. Needs a purse (because we all shouldn't wear shopping bags around!) But how much can she spend before it becomes a luxury? As I said from the beginning, I am not OP or in her position. I gave an example from my life so she can laugh that a woman is happy to have a deal that saves her 3k! Maybe it will make her think that contacts versus glasses aren't such a big difference and it can change her teens life and help her feel confident. But what do I know? I'm just a silly, out of touch showoff. 🤪

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:25 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

There is nothing vicious in my post.
EVERYONE has a choice where to spend.

OP asked about going into debt for luxuries. Not about spending what you can afford.
You asked (facetiously): why spend more than you can? That isn't the question here. The question is should you spend what you can't!

I said nothing about being tone deaf. I simply pointed out that noone in the world can say that spending that kind of money on a purse is not a luxury.

May I recommend that you leave this thread? It's clearly upsetting you and just as clearly your comments are not going to help OP. She's really struggling with just making ends meet not with deciding whether to spend $1000 or $3000 on a purse. She likely hasn't bought a purse in years.

As to women walking around with these things who can't afford it, that's not relevant here. If they choose to go into debt for that, it's their problem. OP is struggling with deciding where to draw the line between necessities that you have to go into debt over and luxuries that you don't. She's not asking about other people's poor choices.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:28 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

Debt isn't an issue for you because you can afford what you want. Not because you avoid frivolous purchases.

Why would this make OP laugh? It's more likely to make her cry. She's struggling to buy her daughter basics.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:29 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

I am not really understanding what you're saying here. So technically I can live without anything. I mean I can live in the street for goodness sake. Where do I draw the line?

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:34 am

OP I really thought hard about your question.

I think to me, medical needs - including lenses if your daughter's eyesight might be affected long term, are a necessity.
Basic clothes that don't make a child feel weird, are a necessity.

Buying specific labels, or a wide variety, or "what everyone else has" is definitely luxury.

The grey area in between is where it's tough. I decide on a case-by-case basis.
So when my teen had backache, I bought her an expensive mattress. My mattress is terrible, but it's not affecting my health, only my comfort.
My son who was not articulating clearly got braces, my daughter who just had one or two teeth that were not 100% straight, didn't.
My son with social issues got a new backpack. My son who's super confident, didn't.
Also, I swallow my pride very often and take from other people. It's possible your husband needs to do this temporarily until you get on your feet and he can list everything and pay it forward once you are able to. That's what keeps my husband from objecting. He lists everything and he will pay forward. But at least in the meantime, we aren't drowning in debt.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:37 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Debt isn't an issue for you because you can afford what you want. Not because you avoid frivolous pur

Why would this make OP laugh? It's more likely to make her cry. She's struggling to buy her daughter basics.

I am struggling to buy basics for my 4 kids and family. We had snap last month and this month but will lose it next month because I am working more now. It's a viscous cycle.
It doesn't make me laugh. It does make me feel sad, but I know parnassah is from Hashem. If someone has so much that they can just buy a purse on a whim, that's great for them. I wish I could understand that one day although I never could. Wish I could buy a new sheitel on a whim. I ask Hashem to help us have enough but for now we need to struggle.

amother

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 8:40 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Thanks this is helpful.

Also what do you mean take from other people? Take from who?