Going into debt for a luxury

amother

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 7:56 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

Kids needing new clothes is not a luxury: kids GROW (BH!) my kids get new everything all the time (coats, boots, sandals, shabbos shoes, of course clothes) but things like hair accessories and winter accessories may not need to be replaced because the size doesn’t change from year to year. Kids clothes is not a luxury. Where you shop and how much you spend may be. If buying kids clothes would put someone in debt then there are tons of people who give away hand me downs

So I am very frugal. I wait until July or November and buy Tottini when it's $6/$7 an item. I don't replace winter accessories generally. Girls are preteens and they wanted more stylish coats and theirs were both too small so "splurged on that". But it went on credit card.
Hand me down clothes are a lot harder when they are older because they are picky and because people at that age keep it for a long time. But we try...
To me it's a luxury because it's not the in tight little box of if we don't have it we can't live. But I know it's not a luxury. Ugh I wish things were easier.

amother

Sienna

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 7:57 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

I wish I could rely on this. But I can't always find someone giving out the size and gender I need at the time I need it, and then I need to hope it's in okay condition and that my child is willing to wear it.

I do admit to going further into debt to buy Tottini clearance items for my DDs when their skirts are just too short to wear.

amother

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 8:04 pm

amother Sienna wrote:

Same. thank you for the validation. Sad that we have to feel guilty about this and like it's a luxury

amother

Stonewash

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 8:09 pm

If "debt" means putting something I got for a good deal that is under $100 on a credit card that I know I will pay off before the next billing cycle, yes, I do that.

If "debt" means dropping $$$$$ on an uneeded luxury item that will just sit on my credit card costing me money, no, I stopped doing that.

amother

Snapdragon

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 9:31 pm

I don't. I don't treat myself, do takeout, or buy ready made foods. No frozen pizza etc either. Honestly- we tell our kids that you eat what we made or eat cereal and milk. I have super picky eaters. One learned to eat and enjoy the food served. The other eats a combination of cereal or parts of the dinner made. And that one is growing just fine.

It really bothers me when people are collecting but then somehow their kids are all in up to date matching clothing. Their 2 year old has shabbos shoes (European, not target). But they need someone to buy them a stroller or a baby bouncer? My kids don't get Shabbos shoes until much later on... no matching clothing, nothing fancy. But when I tried to get help with something I got zero help.

amother

Moonstone

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 9:32 pm

lamplighter wrote:

Clothes are not a luxury. Jewelry is.

Depends on the clothes and the jewelry. $100 jewelry item from Macy's clearance versus a $900 coat... luxury is subjective in both examples. I personally would not carry debt for a luxury item. That said, bh I can afford quite a bit so to me, luxury is different than to someone of a different socioeconomic background where having meat twice a week is considered a luxury. I just bought myself a mulberry purse and am super excited it was on sale to $1,100. Is this luxury? To some. To me, not really. I could've bought a reserve YSL bag that I was thinking about for 4k. So going cheaper feels better but is it luxury? Again, depends who you ask. But either way, carrying debt for something frivolous like this is just silly.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 10:53 pm

It’s an interesting question because luxury means something different to everyone.

My in-laws went into debt recently because they made 2 weddings, mine and BIL. Now, that sounds totally reasonable, except to me so many of the things that they spent on they don’t “need”. Like just don’t get me fancy flowers, spend less on the jewelry, don’t get so many sheva brachos clothes, get cheaper gowns, don’t get makeup done for vort and afruf, etc. it made me so uncomfortable that they kept spending money on me when I didn’t need it. but I guess to them these are not luxuries, they’re necessities.

amother

Bluebonnet

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 11:36 pm

lamplighter wrote:

Yes clothes can be a luxury but I'm answering the question asked....buying clothes for children who out grew theirs is not a luxury. Jewelry always is.
(In regards to putting on a CC)

In my town every shtinker toddler is wearing a $200 frum coat. I jwent to Zara and got my toddler a nice coat for $30. FYI there is lots of tzedaka collecting going on in my community.

I was at a jewelry store and O said something is too expensive they replied that you can make a payment plan lol. I do think having some costume jewelry is a must.

amother

Bone

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 11:53 pm

Nobody can judge. One person's luxury may be another person's necessity. DH and I have regular jobs that pay the monthly bills. On the side, I also make a little money per hour based on how much I want to work in the evenings. I was recently in a situation where I decided to indulge in something costly (I felt it was a luxury but was told it was a necessity by relatives--mental health being at stake and all that). Had I known in advance how the costs would add up I would never have agreed. Now that it's done I need to put in many more hours to pay it off, which I will happily do. I wouldn't necessarily do it again but if a person has a plan to work off the debt then I don't see why not.

amother

Lotus

Sat, Jan 06 2024, 11:58 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Actually I disagree. A discount mulberry purse on sale for $1,100 is luxury, period. Sure, you may be able to afford even more luxurious but how sad would it be to lose sight of the fact that a $1,100 bag is a luxury and if you can afford it that’s something to be very grateful for?
I do hope you enjoy your bag every day. I have some items that are luxurious (paid for with cash or if I Knew I had the money to pay the cc bill) such as a very expensive perfume that smells so so good that I enjoy every Shabbos. And I appreciate it and know it’s a luxury and I’m grateful that I have it!

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 12:13 am

amother Lotus wrote:

Never said I wasn't grateful for what I have. But, as I said, I view luxury differently because of where I am financially. This is such a subjective area and isn't comparable to basic necessities like food or bras. My point is simple. I would not go into debt for what I view as luxuries. Also, just to clarify, I do not have debt other than car loans. CC's get paid in full, on time. No mortgage or student loans and I am the main earner of our family. So don't throw tomatoes because I work hard for our standard of living and view luxury differently than you do.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 12:53 am

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

I've never actually heard its emunah to go into debt (IRL). However, sometimes there's a big expense that people put on the credit card and assume they will pay it off in the next few months. Yom tov expenses or camp often fall into that category. Noones stealing here... just spreading out the expense.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Then they have a repayment plan. They're not just swiping and hoping for the best.
It still makes more sense to spread the expense BEFOREhand not afterwards - you'll be spending the same per month but without paying interest.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 12:55 am

amother Tan wrote:

Because my roof can't wait till I find the 10k to afford it, nor can my kids $400 EpiPen to replace the one that expired 6 months ago but I really shouldn't rely on. Or with your table example- we didn't replace our wobbly table until the day it fell on my legs despite our fixes and really hurt me and we looked at each other and said "bH it was an adult sitting at the table, because if that was a kid it would have been an ER visit. " The table got replaced with the cheapest reasonable replacement we could find, but we couldn't wait longer.

And I'm capable of cheap easy meals, but then the chicken nuggets or fish sticks or frozen pizza my kids ask for instead because they refuse to eat the vegetarian chili cancel out whatever savings I've managed.

Would you take tzedaka for these needs? It makes more sense to ask someone to sponsor the epipen and the roof than to go into debt which you can't pay back.
About the food - if my kids don't like the supper, they can eat cereal or toast. Why does it have to be frozen pizza?

amother

Tan

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 3:20 am

amother Begonia wrote:

My husband is very opposed to taking tzedaka. He hates that I get clothes for the kids from a gemach because he thinks other people need it more.

I don't know what prices are like where you live, but cereal and milk or toast and cheese are a fortune here! I'm not sure that that would really save money. My kids ate a $5 package of cheese for dinner tonight- it was only 8 slices! For the same $5 I can make them meatballs with meat I bought on sale. My kids also border on underweight and need 1 fattening meal a day. Breakfast is generally toast or oatmeal. Lunch is pasta. Kids can't grow on just carbs.

amother

Electricblue

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 3:40 am

amother OP wrote:

If there is never enough are you super frugal or do you treat yourself sometimes and go into debt for it?

Why would you want to go into debt?

I was in huge debt as a student, out of necessity, but now I have no credit cards or any debt of any kind. I have no desire to deliberately go into debt, I don’t understand that mentality at all. I have a small overdraft facility just in case, and the few times I have been temporarily overdrawn has made me nervous enough never to go into debt again.

camp123

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 3:58 am

Debt will have to be payed back with interest, so if you can't afford it now, then why will you be able to afford even more later. If you can afford to pay the debt back then that can afford to save for the luxury now. Don't dig yourself a whole you can't climb out of its not worth it. For necessitates you may not have a choice but then it's better to collect tzedaka if you can.

amother

Begonia

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 5:42 am

amother Tan wrote:

So he'd rather go into debt that he can't repay than take tzedaka?

Obviously with food, work out what pays best. That poster was saying her kids wanted nuggets and frozen pizza which are neither healthy nor cost effective.